Hi Jay -- Here's the reality . . .

Gallicas, Damasks, Albas, Mosses . . . The lovely old Northern European roses . . . will not flourish along the Southern California coast.

God knows, you can buy them and plant them, but they will not flourish. They will bloom sparingly for one year and less with each succeeding year, and the plants will dwindle. They will suffer from fungal disease.

These roses were bred, and evolved, to enjoy a period of winter dormancy, and to pop up in the spring with a huge flush of bloom. Unless you can in some fashion simulate a cold, snowy winter in your garden, you won't do well. (If you would like to re-locate to property about 75 miles inland, now . . . )

One rose, absolutely correct for the period of significance you are aiming for is 'Autumn Damask.' It was the Roman's "Twice-Blooming Rose of Paestum."

Roses that were bred to LOOK like the things you like . . . David Austin's Shrub Roses do this. Some do well in Southern California. Many do not. My garden is coastal, and I can give you the names of the Austin roses which have been successful here.

The best roses for your location are those with a high level of Asian breeding -- roses that evolved for warm climates, and mild winters. They do not experience winter dormancy (and in fact may bloom most heartily in that season). They will become semi-dormant in a hot, dry season.

I've never seen Angel Face really flourish here. I was really charmed a couple of weeks ago by this 'Burgundy Iceberg,' (photographed at a local Convalescent Home, where we were doing a Therapy Dog visit). It seems to be just as happy here as the original 'Iceberg.'

If you want to contact me privately for coastal specifics, feel free.

Jeri Jennings
The Heritage Roses Group
Coastal Ventura County, SoCal

Jay, have you visited the Getty Villa? I took a bunch of photos, now to figure out what flash card they are on, but it looks like they used a mix including Austins. They have a garden tour, it might be fun to go and see what the docent says.

Jay, I have no idea what to suggest for you in terms of a specific rose, but I thought you might like to see what roses are currently planted in the Atrium Vestae (of the Vestal Virgins) in the Roman Forum. This is from July 2012, so not during the flush, but a few nice blooms anyway.

Sorry I can't identify them, but someone here probably can if you are interested. Good luck, it sounds like an interesting project.

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This post was edited by subk3 on Mon, Jul 22, 13 at 13:19

Thanks for your feedback,

I was afraid I would hear that! I have generally not been comforted by others' stories of growing Old Garden Roses here, but I truly love their appearance. I have actually been fortunate enough to serve as an instructor at a Spoken Latin Inmersion Camp held at the Getty Villa for several summers. It is undoubtedly my greatest inspiration. I know they have some success with Quatre Saisons, Ballerina (Hybrid Musk), and Constance Spry at the very least. I don't recall any other varieties at the moment. Then again, if I had a full time garden staff, I could probably pick varieties a little more recklessly.

I will almost certainly be giving the Quatre Saisons a try here, but if it doesn't succeed, I'll move on. Do you think Cramoisi Superieur would be a good fit here? I love the Serratipetala sport, and enjoy the regular form enough if it reverts that I've been looking into that. The Lady Banks rose that has been here for about 20 years does wonderfully with almost no attention, so I can see your point on the lineage.

Cheers,
Jay

Jay, Cramoisi Superieur should be magnificent for you -- and I can heartily recommend 'Louis Phillipe.'

You're right. The banksiaes are great here, and if not pruned after their spring bloom, they will often scatter a repeat bloom, near the coast.

There is a Banksia hybrid -- 'Purezza' -- which WILL repeat through the year.

If you want purple, I heartily recommend Harkness' 'International Herald Tribune,' which blooms a lot, and has no disease here. (You just don't want to deadhead it hard, and do NOT prune it!)

Most of the Tea Roses (not Hybrid Teas) are excellent here. If you'd like to send me a private message, I can give you other coastal suggestions without boring everyone else to tears. And you might want to monitor the ANTIQUES side of the Forum.

Jeri

Jeri,

I will most definitely send you a message soon, but I did want to add that we do have a Burgundy Iceberg here that has done well. Additionally two Night Owl climbers have flowered well this summer (I believe they are three years old) and grown quite vigorously. The deep, dark purple is lovely and I don't mind the traditional single bloom. I was recently at Home Depot getting quick set cement to set poles for a grape arbor and was competely taken aback by a magnificent purple/magenta rose simply titled J.C.'s Rose if you happen to know anything about it. There was essentially no information or tag so I took a pass.

I should add that I had sporadically done some regular gardening in the past, but it's only in the past year I've truly become very interested and active at the same time on a nearly daily basis. A 10 year old yellow hybrid tea I forget the name of planted besides a lovely Monterey Blue Hibiscus bush has been the most wonderful smelling, elegantly shaped, single flower per stem cut flower all summer for me. It really got me stuck on roses and spurred on designing and clearing out a new bed.

Anyways, thanks so much for the advice. I appreciate avoiding any mistakes I'll later (and needlessly) regret.

Jay

There was a discussion about JCs Rose in early 2012, and I think it was determined that it was something from Jim Coiner, of Coiner Roses.

They don't list it on their website this year, and it's not listed in HelpMeFind Roses -- but perhaps some here will have grown it?

Jeri

I have JCs Rose!

I thought I had a photo of one of the candelabras it put out, but it had 20+ buds, would have filled a vase with just one cut.

As far as disease resistance, I would guess that it would be one that got some late season rust, but don't recall right now.

How fun to be at the Getty! My son took Latin in HS and enjoyed it very much. (I think he took it all 4 years but might have just been 3 years)

Since your 5.5' pillar is a rather small structure upon which to grow a rose in California, you need to be looking for a rose that doesn't grow very fast or that doesn't mind heavy and frequent pruning. I assume you want the column itself to stay visible and conspicuous. Also, unless you are happy to spray fungicide regularly, you want roses that California growers consider resistant to powdery mildew and rose rust diseases. Are the repeating damasks resistant?

I don't know whether you were considering it for the pillar, but 'Cramoisi' is a very full, bushy rose that would hide the pillar. The same would be true of most old tea and china roses.

There are two ways to pillar a rose. With stiff-caned varieties, you can tie the canes vertically and cut them back after blooming to different heights, so that flowers will come at different heights, not just at the top. The other (and nicer) method is to use a variety with very flexible canes that can be wrapped in a spiral. Wrapped canes will produce blooming lateral shoots all along their length. For the best effect, choose a variety that makes short blooming laterals rather than long stems.

So, for the pillar, you want a variety with moderate vigor, flexible canes, short stems, and resistance to California diseases. I don't know about Santa Monica, but some roses suitable for a 6' pillar around here are 'Ballerina', 'Tradescant', 'Weeping China Doll', and 'Sweet Chariot'.

Hi all,
Does anyone think that Louis Phillipe could work as a shorter pillar? I would really like to go red there I've decided. If there are any red teas that come to mind, I'd love to hear your suggestions as well.

Thanks for all the help,
Jay