Of all my Bourbons, Souvenir, Madame Issac P and Madame Ernst C. do the best. In the Fullerton Arboretum the Souv. is HUGE! They are the only ones to repeat in the fall with any substance. The others make a nice spring show and then basically, they're done for the year. I think you just got a bad copy of Malmaison. I would try again. Don't let the sprinklers wet it down or the flowers are history. I have a soaker hose under mine. All three took a good 4 years to get large and start blooming well. I have Mme. Pierre Oger as well but it's young and so I cannot really comment except to say that the bush is taking on a tall and narrow shape like Reine Victoria and that the flowers are perfectly shaped but fade a little in strong afternoon sun.

One of the advantages of this Bourbon is that it does not mind being pruned-it will give you more rebloom if you prune frequently. Reine Victoria is a long caned Bourbon and is very apical dominant-the tip bud supresses the side laterals-it really responds to pegging(pulling the tip down to supress it) and pruning so you can keep it smaller if you want. I nip away at mine all during the summer reshaping the bushes all along. Feed them well since they keep blooming. I see no difference in vigor between the two. I would chose MPO of the two because the flower is more unusual but that is me. I do love the cupped roses. patricia

Of the ones on this list, I only have a handy picture of Comte de Chambord. I have had Reine des Violettes in the past and also have Mme. Pierre Oger. In general, I would say that these groups of roses, the hybrid perpetuals, Bourbons, and Portlands all benefit from a cold period for rest. If you do not have a cold period, then you would be better served by the hybrid chinas, teas, and Noisettes. Most of the old garden roses on your lists do have a nice smell. Comte de Chambord has a good fragrance to it, and so does Mme Pierre Oger. A picture of Comte de Chambord: I hope this helps a bit.

mad_gallica is right about Chinas and Teas and other "warm-climate" roses not liking cool Summers -- and this is probably why the old books written in Great Britain bemoan then as "lacking vigor". In reality, they simply didn't get the heat they needed to promote vigorous growth, despite not having to endure Winters as severe as they are here. Where I am, the growing season is warm to hot, humid, and we get ample rain. I lived in Buffalo, NY for three years, and the Summers there were not nearly as hot and humid as all my years on Long Island and my past three years in central NJ. This is why I went with a wide range of rose types when I was shopping for this garden -- I knew that the once-blooming European OGRs would just yawn through Winters here, but I see that they pretty much stop putting out new growth once the temps start hanging in the 90s. I wasn't sure how well Chinas and Teas would do, but was encouraged when I read that Stephen Scanniello grows some both in his Barnegat, NJ garden and in various client gardens in NYC and Long Island. So I went with a few. Yes, they took a beating after Winter, but while most of my other roses languished through Summer, they were invigorated with growth and bloom. Pruning the dead stuff off in Spring left them looking rather like how most people treat Buddleia butterfly bushes, but also like them, they quadruple in size by the end of the growing season. However, if you don't get hot Summers, they may not get what they need to "make up" for what Winter took away from them, and you'll be left with tiny things that are always on the cusp of growing backwards. When Winter comes, the new Teas and Chinas I got which I intend to keep in pots will be going into the garage or my enclosed-but-unheated back porch. Before that time, I'll stop watering them. I'm hoping that keeping them cold and dry after they get smacked into their version of dormancy will keep them from trying to grow again. And they'll be out of the wind. I'll bring them out again in late March or early April, which is about when my other roses start leafing out. Temperatures at that time of year don't go any lower than they do in late Autumn here, and the few Chinas and Teas I have in the ground are still blooming a little then. And those temperatures are much like the lowest reached in zone 9. Keep in mind that this is my first time trying this, so I can't say if my plan is sure to work. If you have an area where you can set up grow-lights, perhaps you can try keeping them there for the Winter. But as was mentioned before, roses don't often do well in typical indoor air. Beyond that, you may want to look at Bourbons and Hybrid Perpetuals and Portlands (aka Damask Perpetuals) if you want to expand into OGRs that repeat-bloom. When I was in Buffalo, I gifted a few to some neighbors, and they got through Winters there with very little dieback. Of course, this will vary with the cultivars -- those with more recent Tea ancestry will be less hardy. Another bit of advice when looking up roses on HelpMeFind is to go beyond the zone hardiness rating and instead look to see which member gardens grow that particular rose. If a member garden is in your neck of the woods, that could be an indication that it will be OK for you. And be willing to experiment -- most roses don't do well everywhere, but there's usually many which do well somewhere in particular. And if you're starting with bands, aim for Spring delivery and try to push growth through the Summer by growing them in pots with something like my "magic mix". Then plant after the hottest part of Summer has passed, a little deeper in the ground than you'd think. That little bit of extra depth may help a baby through its first Winter. :-) ~Christopher