When I add fresh material to my compost bin, I typically make a little "nest" of old material, then cover it. Somewhat like the picture at the link. Although I've had mice occasionally enter our house, I've never had a problem with mice at the compost bin.

Do you "nest" your new material like this?

(Also, by food scraps, are you putting in meats and dairy? I don't think you're supposed to put those in most composters, nor in municipal green bins. Those will really draw in the pests, so that would be an easy first step to taking care of the rodent problem.)

Here is a link that might be useful: earth machine pictures

No, it's not meat and dairy. The problem is like bread things, and the fruit has given me a super bad fruit fly problem. The fruit flies also come in the house. It would help if I could get more coffee ground from Starbucks, but they are really being a pain. They stopped giving away anything but the espresso grounds which I can hardily ever get anymore due to such a limited supply and such great demand. I can't get enough coffee to keep it very hot all the time, and I don't have enough energy to keep it at that level anymore. I do cover the stuff up, but since it's not hot the pest can go right it. In fact the ant colony was actually discovered inside the bin. The ants once uncovered began to carry away what looks like larva ants. They actually set up an entire home inside the bin. I can't find Terro bait anywhere. I have been to both home depot and walmart. I tried grants and raid bait stations and they don't work. But, this is the first time this is ever happened to me in so many years of composting. I can't understand why things have changed. Actually you can put anything in the municipal compost including meat and dairy. Mice are not into meat and dairy, that is not why they say not to, those foods are proteins and will attract other things flies and maggots. Mice are into grains. You can contact them and ask them what to put in the municipal compost in your area or try the website, but here they have bill board on all the buses demanding we compost all food scraps.

use diatomaceous earth in your compost bin to get rid of the ants. if you don't have any worms in your bin, boiling water will also--ah--"discourage" ants. I use it often when I discover a nest. Keep at it; several kettles' worth may be needed to truly drive them away.

sorry for weird capital letters tonight, but Kitty is in my lap and limiting access to certain keys, like right-hand shift key.

I'm not sure what to say about mice; peanut-butter baited snap traps may help. I bought mine at ace/pastime hardware. You need to deal with the mice because, if not reduced in population now, they will multiply in your nice warm compost over the winter and will be in your house/apartment very soon. probably your neighbors' houses/apts too.

most counties in california have vector control departments, where you can get help for rodents. but with the ants, you're on your own. which is why I recommended diatomaceous earth. some people recommend powdered cinnamon, but i've found that of lesser use than the diat. earth.

i guess you're in berkeley or maybe oakland b/c of the food-waste compost thing...

in el cerrito

I suppose a cat is out of the question? I've never had a mouse problem, but perhaps that's because of my cats. They do love a good mouse with a sniffer of milk after a hard day's napping.

I've never had ants in my compost either. I have ants other places, but not the compost. Perhaps you could aerate it more often? Disturb their serenity?

I am in San Francisco. I have cats. One of them does catch mice, but I have to stop because the mice came in the basement. I can't seal it and the mice already did damage. I was thinking about boiling water, but I can't get it to the bottom part. I doubt it would affect the lower layer very much where I have a colony. Diatomaceous earth I have considered, but I don't want to fill the whole bin, and then have it all over the garden. When the compost goes into the plants, I don't want to have things covered with diatomaceous. I turn it at least every two weeks. I have two earth machines, and I take it out of one and turn the whole thing upside down. The new stuff goes to the bottom the old stuff goes to the top. This is why I know the ants are still there. Each time I check I can still see the colony and it's about 3/4 of the way down. I wonder if this is all due to global warming. I have always been able to solve these problems with coffee grounds in the past. Does anyone know why Terro is sold out everywhere in the San Francisco Bay area?

The only thing that has changed besides global warming is the new policy of food recycling in San Francisco. I wonder if this caused a huge increase in ants and mice? I have friends who also have problems with them this year. It's getting very serious.

I stand corrected on the green bins. I remember reading many pamphlets online about green bins and they all rejected meat and dairy, (some going so far as to suggest green cones for those items) but times change.

(But, for the record, my pet rats will argue with your claim that meat doesn't draw rodents. They love my meat scraps - more than any other treat I give them, it seems.)

Maybe the green cone would be an idea for taking care of your kitchen waste? It uses solar energy to heat the contents for rapid decomposition. The link below is the main UK site, but some googling will bring you to a variety of US distributers. Note: I've never used one, so don't take this as a recommendation.

Here is a link that might be useful: Green Cone

The confusion results from getting confusing between the city wide green bins which are picked up on trash day vs. home composting bins. It's hard to explain if your area does not have city wide green bins. But, all food scraps go in the city wide green bin, and I just bought some bio liners so I can start putting all my food in the city wide bin instead of in my earth machine which is similar to the green cone link above. It won't heat up the food fast enough to get rid of mice and ants that can feed there. Mice can fit in very small cracks. I just went to Lowes and found the terro bait, and hopefully in a few weeks I can see some progress. I have to stop stopping food scraps in my home bin which is an earth machine. If you click on this link you can see they want meat and diary in these bins. It's a program to result stress on landfills.

Here is a link that might be useful: city wide green bin link

I'm not confused; I know the difference between green bins and composting systems. SF just accepts more in their green bins then LA and many other areas. (See link below.) SF's policies are not universal for all city green bins. I was mistaken in thinking that other cities' policies apply to SF; it seems as if you're mistaken the other way. ::smile::

Once again, I learned about the green cone from pamphlets put out by municipalities which have a curbside green bin program as a recommendation for disposing of meat and dairy waste in conjunction with their vegetation-based-only food waste and garden waste green bins.

The green cone is very different from a composting bin such as the earth machine. If you want to see the differences, just compare the green cone with the green johanna; both are at the link I gave previously.

Nevertheless, I was just trying to help - not really interested in getting into an argument.

Here is a link that might be useful: LA green bins

I don't think a green cone bin would get hotter then a black bin. It may be smaller, but still I think only if it could be plugged in could it get hot enough to really do the job, and completely sterilize the compost. It's a nice idea, but I just can't see buy something else. I have two earth machines and two rubber maid bins, and I may have to stop composting altogether. If you add up the mice damage, composting actually costs me money, and does not save me money.

SF may have to change the policy after having visited the school of hard knocks. Do call your vector control and tell them that the new composting rules are causing an influx of mice and ants. Vector control would probably be the agency which could get the rules changed. Sometimes people are short-sighted in their zeal--don't consider all pertinent ramifications.

Years ago, during the mid-70s, cockroaches were spread throughout the City of Berkeley because the Coop stores began a policy of buying back used grocery bags. Those were the days of brown paper bags. The bigwigs at Coop never considered that they could cause an infestation of roaches throughout the city with their eco-friendly bag buy back policy. Initally Coop was lauded for having come up with a good environmental policy. However, customers who suddenly found their homes infested with roaches traced the problem to those reused bags. Roaches eat glue, so they are attracted to brown paper bags. The bag buy back policy came to a screeching halt. A new policy was put into effect, people could bring in used grocery bags and use them for their own groceries.

Lorna (former Berkeley resident)

The green cone, technically, doesn't create compost.

OK, I'm stepping away from the dead horse now...

(But, yeah, the cost certainly would get me as well.)

Yes, it a something to think about. I am hoping just me stopping with the scraps will mean I don't have to call vector control. I love cute little mice. So far the ants have not shown any interest in the Terro. That's three types of ant bait and no progress. I am only going to add coffee grounds and browns now. The browns I use are bagged wood mulch. I have to get this compost finished and used up fast. I can do it in two weeks. I have a very fast turn around with my compost.

somehow I think meat and dairy in compost will attract more than just mice I think it will attract Satan sort of like burnt offerings pleased God just that this is decaying offerings for Satan . I'm opposed to it . I know that's exaggerated but I've tolerated my neighbours food compost for far too long it's just me thats all but I'm sure not too many people enjoy the rank and file smell of decay floating about the nearby neighbourhood .

I know that meat will create flies and maggots which is just hideous enough. I am not sure if it will create more mice, but I believe mice are eaters of grains. Mine does not smell because I use coffee and wood and I turn it a lot. If it smells that means it may be too wet creating anaerobic conditions. People who use tumblers report these problems, due to lack of drainage.

I use a mid-sized galvanished trash can with holes on the bottom that is buried about 12 inches. It has a lid that is held closed with the handle. I put scraps in and cover with compost. The earthworms come and do their job. I have more than one so it doesn't fill up too fast.

You could always start vericomposting. Worms do a good job of eating veggie scraps and paper products.

Alfalfa pellets will also heat up a compost pile and they are pretty cheap if you buy the horse ones, not the rabbit ones. Not as cheap as free but an option if coffee grinds aren't available.

Oh and you might try adding dried molasses.......my ants don't like it and it really gets the microbes going.

What type of ants are you all talking about? I have the small little brown ants in mine. I've read that they cause no harm but are usually a sign that the bin it to dry. In the past I've had problems with rats. Yep that's what I said rats not mice I'm not quit sure why but after me and the neighbors killed about 6 of them we have them no more. I've also changed to putting all my food scraps in a 55 gallon home made compost bin that has a lid on it and they can't get into there. But the other day I moved it and notice in one area where some moister was coming out I had maggots and on the other side I had ants. Interesting... But the inside looks good and is nice and hot so I'm not to worried.

The San Francisco Bay Area has rats. I used to live there, used to take walks early in the mornings, and have seen rats in parks and in the streets a number of times.

Lorna

I have already solved the problem. I stopped adding scraps and I got a huge amount of coffee grounds, and I mixed it all in and turned everything. Now I check the bin and there is no ants. It breaks my heart to stop composting food, but the mice could be baby rats. Alfalfa was a huge part of my problem. I had EB Stone brand starter fertilizer made of Alfalfa in a box, and the rats got into the basement and found it. The ripped open the box and ate it, and then they began to rip up other things looking for food. I am lucky that they can't eat coffee grounds and they are free so I will continue to work with just wood and coffee ground and not use anything edible for ants or rats, and without fruit peelings the fruit flies are also gone. We had a outbreak near me, became I saw some government issue fruit fly traps. The rats can flatten themselves and fit in tiny space like the slates in the earth machine and ants can fit in no matter what.

I think if I had a bug and rodent problem, I would stop adding the food stuff for awhile.

I would also make sure that I mixed or disturbed the bin more regular. Aren't those bins made so they can be turned easily? I have a big ground pile, so I don't turn very often. But if I had a bug and rodent problem, I would turn more often. I would also keep the pile heavy on the brown side.

And perhaps after a couple months or so, you could start adding food scraps back in, but make sure you have them buried deep in browns, and keep it moist, turned and covered. And then you could test if rodents reappear.

I have two earth machines. I turn them by taking a plastic tub and removing the top compost and placing it into the other bin until I have reached the bottom and bin is completely turned. Then I often start a new bin in the first earth machine. I have two rubber maid bins in case of any overflow, but it really is a lot of demanding physical labour.

solution to mouse/rat problem

You don't need to stop adding food scraps. The ants are typically the result of a dry pile. That's why when you add the coffee grounds they go away. The fruit flies are because the fruit isn't covered. We add a good amount of fruit to my bins and don't have a problem with them. I usually did a little spot out of the middle then add the kitchen scraps then cover it back up. As far as the mice/rats I believe they are more after the grain. I would restrict the amount of grain products you put into your bin. OR get a bin that they can't get into for just the food scraps. Or you could always go to build a worm farm and put your food scraps directly in there and keep your compost bin for your yard scraps.