Concrete can leach into the soil, but I think the main thing it leaches is calcium. That can raise the pH, but in NY, you're likely to have low pH, so that's less of an issue for you than it would be for me. I'm not sure what other effects it would have.

A new garden shed 16 X 20 !!!!!!
Oh my gosh... what a dream. :)

It's just the lime. And it's only really strong the first couple years. And it doesn't go far from the concrete. We have rather acidic soil here and I do find that little bit of lime leaching close to my old concrete can help if I really, really want a plant that routinely does poorly for me elsewhere due to the acid soil. And I wouldn't plant a blueberry next to the sidewalk..but other than that, no problems.

The concrete space will hold more heat too, so you will likely start thinking of those dear plants you want so much, but loose them on cold years. This is the place.
Oh, and this is also the back of that cold frame :)

People build outdoor fish ponds with plain old concrete, and they either do several wash / rinses with a very strong acid to help condition the pool, or better yet, they don't add fish the first year. They fill and empty the pool as often as they can and let the winter rains wash it out as well. Testing the ph the next spring usually gives them the all clear to add their fish. Then they do need to watch the ph more closely this year, but it's easy to see it leveling off as they test through that summer. Not that all fish owners take such care, but that's the recommended procedure, and dead fish because of alkaline water prevention technique I go by.

So to my way of thinking, if cheap goldfish or expensive koi can live in it 24/7, I'm not too worried about produce. Ya know ? ;)

Concrete is lime, water, and aggregate (stone) and the lime and water react and create the hard substance we call concrete. Since concrete is mostly lime it can leach out to soils some of that Calcium Carbonate that is lime which could raise your soils pH, a short distance from the concrete. This does happen just after the concrete is cured and can also happen later as the concrete starts to deteriorate.

Thanks for all of the excellent experience sharing here!

If you have time, please consider helping out a newbie with a similar situation. You can check out my post here:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/ohioval/msg0920035213984.html

neatlyfolded, here is a clickable link to your question.

bpgreen, plaidbird, and kimmsr, thanks for your thoughts! It'll be great to have some storage room cheek by jowl with the garden ... and I really need it for some power garden tools, which are currently stored in a friend's barn (not exactly convenient). I might try to run electricity out there so that I can set up a little woodshop.

For some reason I thought that concrete also contained fly ash, an industrial residue that could contain heavy metals, or other such contaminants. The land's virgin pasture now, so I'm a little paranoid about polluting it.

I've decided to wait till spring to start the project, so if anyone has more words of wisdom, please share them!

Thanks, nygardener!

Also: As a (former) electrician, I can second informal anecdotes regarding fly ash -- ie, being a common component of concrete mixes, and being a source of heavy metals / potential toxicity.

Whether fly ash is used in the concrete you buy depends on many things, but you will not be in any cement you buy. If the company that mixes the concrete you buy does mix in fly ash you should have an option to not have that included.
Concrete is the mix of stuff that includes the cement, aggregate, and water. Cement is the dried lime that is mixed with other materials, including water, that makes concrete.

Here's an idea that might provide some food for thought...? Involves common plantings, fill types, and drainage elements designed to filter undesirables present in concrete storm runoff.

(Note that frost-line / burial requirements probably won't be as deep for you, if you're close to the Atlantic.)

Here is a link that might be useful: Iowa State Rain Garden Manual

Fly ash? Is that the little cremated bodies of flies????
Sorry, had to do it! LOL

Cool article, neatlyfolded. Thanks for the reference!

nancyjane, you are wrong, girl. Fly ash is some cinders that are stylin'.

nancyjane: Good one, You are excused!

Curt

Hello everyone.. I dont mean to be a burden when I say these things but I studied architcture and the concrete jungle for the past three years and I am sorry to say, it is not the concrete you should worry about... the devil is in the detail, it is some of the ingredients in the cement used inside the concrete that causes the real damage.

These ingredients of cement are very toxic and for the whole time the concrete structure has been put in place, the concrete slowy deteriorates and leaks the toxicity of cement into the atmosphere... and the soil around it! this means that the little worms and insects, plants and trees around it are not living in a natural surrounding.

Yes the lime ingredient in the concrete has good benefits but it still does not justify combining it with a man made toxin, such as cement.

You can use a natural alternatives to some of the ingredients in cement to filter toxicity such as : pozzolan, which does a very similar thing but contains little cementitous value itself.

Some of the best things anyone could do to treat their plants and soil is by using volcanic ash aka calcium bentonite clay or the worlds most powerful antibiotic called colloidal silver
, andorganic matter... and whereever possible, obtain a licence and grow hemp.

I hope this helps bring you all to a new journey with people like myself.

Peace x

"These ingredients of cement are very toxic and for the whole time the concrete structure has been put in place, the concrete slowy deteriorates and leaks the toxicity of cement into the atmosphere... and the soil around it!"

Please elaborate on exactly what is toxic about concrete.

The rest of this thread is old, but I'll just add that fly ash can have higher concentrations of heavy metals than surrounding soil, clean limestone, etc. However, if used at all, it's only a fraction of the content, which dilutes it out. Also, the process it undergoes when water is added locks all the materials together like stone. Unless you grind it back to a powder and eat it by the cupful, it will do no damage whatsoever. There is certainly nothing toxic leaking into the atmosphere, either. Having been roasted at a couple thousand degrees, it contains nothing volatile.

All that leaches out of concrete is alkali, and only for a limited period. Portland cement is basically limestone and gypsum, roasted to a high temperature and ground to a powder. The heating drives off water from the minerals, so when water is added, there is a chemical reaction that essentially binds it all back together into stone. Look it up on Wiki and you'll see.

"All that leaches out of concrete is alkali, and only for a limited period."

Actually, the lime that leaches out of concrete is heaviest when the concrete is new but will continue throughout the life of the material. This is an ongoing concern with acid loving plants planted in close proximity to concrete foundation walls or paving - the leached lime raises soil pH and the higher pH makes necessary plant nutrients unavailable. There is a rather detailed discussion on this topic in the Rhododendron and Azalea forum - rhododendrons and concrete.

But aside from some (usually minor) pH issues, there is no concern about planting close to concrete or the possibility of toxic substances leaching into your edibles.

Please elaborate on exactly what is toxic about concrete...

All I can say for now is it is not natural to replace the soil with concrete and if you would like to keep your plants and soil as healthy as you possibly can then add calcium bentonite clay to the cement and surrounding soil and use colloidal silver to keep the plants extra healthy.

You are right, this is such old news, but a lot older than what you are inclining. Calcium bentonite clay and colloidal silver are two of the best kept secrets from society and are kept from us for one reason only... these two ingredients (+ hemp) completely destroy plans to make money and boost the industrial revolution.

For example,

Calcium bentonite clay has such a powerful electromagnetic charge that it draws all the toxins and heavy metals to stick the the clay like velcro. They are then drawn inside the clay whilst the healthy minerals are released from the clay. All I am is a student at university, but it makes sense to me that if you put the clay inside the cement and soil, it will do wonders to it.

Plus adding calcium bentonite to water will make the water totally harmless, therefore watering plants with this type of water will add to your beautiful gardens

Colloidal silver is the most natural and strongest antibiotic in the world, it is totally safe for humans animals and nature, unless you take ridiculous amounts of it. All you need to make a powerful medicine that virtually kills every disease microbe pathogens etc. is two pieces of pure silver, some wire, 3x9volt baterries, and a glass of distilled water.

You can by 1ft of 99.999% pure silver for approx £20 and that will last you about 6 months.

Again, this is by far the safest medicine and treats plants humans and pets the same. So, even if the concrete is not so good for your garden,

Even if you do not want to use this for your garden as of yet, please will you take interest in what I am saying as I am only showing you the truths that I would like everyone to see.

We can use calcium bentonite clay and colloidal silver to neutrilize and replenish nature whatever the case

I'm not clear on how this relates to building a garden shed.

But I would love to hear more.

It's pseudoscience. I could find a dozen things to pick apart here, but I'll just say that the implied benefits here are not real as described.

It's pseudoscience. I could find a dozen things to pick apart here, but I'll just say that the implied benefits here are not real as described.

pseudoscience? Isnt that what some people used to designed the sysytem we live in?

I remember one of the main laws in science that i was taught at aged 13 was, 'we cannot create new energy. and ok that maybe true but the lack of explanation clearly put us off designing solar panels and running cars via qxygen and h20 etc.when we were children.

It is clear to me why they do not focus on spiritualism or allow colloidal silver and calcium bentonite clay into the educational system, however, please be kind enough to help us solve this situation by picking that apart as well.

Where is your proof? from the text books that you read that fill our heads with false confidence. or the 90% rubbish on internet and TV? ok so i do not have too much proof either but only because of the information kept hidden from us. and what i am showing you is a lot simpler to work out than chemistry

Please do us a favour and pick these things apart. It would help me work out something in particular. please show me the things you can pick apart regarding calcium bentonite clay and colloidal silver?

Sorry please excuse my stupidity. I was banned from mainstream education when I was 14 because the nature of my personality was too much for teachers.... I mean, they could not answer my questions about why the schools where run that way, or deal with the trouble which they caused me just because I could see through the lies..

One of the many people I like to see positive affirmations from is John Assaraf:

You literally become what you think about most.

Your life becomes what you have imagined and believed in most.

The world is literally your mirror, enabling you to experience in the physical plane what you hold as your truth … until you change it.

Quantum physics shows us that the world is not the hard and unchangeable thing it may appear to be. Instead, it is a very fluid place continuously built up using our individual and collective thoughts.

What we think is true is really an illusion, almost like a magic trick.

Fortunately we have begun to uncover the illusion and most importantly, how to change it.

(lisascenic Urban Gardener, Oakland CA

I'm not clear on how this relates to building a garden shed.

But I would love to hear more.)

The only thing it has to do relating building a garden shed is that you are replacing nature with something of your own that is not exactly natural. the concrete is my main issue, and has been a problem in my life for a long time.

I was offering you the best solutions to make up for replacing nature with a garden shed. For if you learn about colloidal silver and calcium bentonite clay then you will give your garden and nature exactly what it needs to revitalize and neutrilize its self.

Of course, it is up to you whether you believe it or not but I am a strong beliver that these elements where taken away from us so the medication system could dominate and replicate nature.

sorry for the late reply. I would love to tell you more but please be patient for a few more days and I will give you all the information for free on the website I am building.

" pseudoscience? Isnt that what some people used to designed the sysytem we live in?"

The system we live in was not 'designed'. It evolved through a complex interplay of individuals, governments, business, industry and nature, over time. I don't see how you could ever say it was 'designed' by anyone in particular. There are too many variables.

"remember one of the main laws in science that i was taught at aged 13 was, 'we cannot create new energy. and ok that maybe true but the lack of explanation clearly put us off designing solar panels and running cars via qxygen and h20 etc.when we were children."

Solar panels do not create energy, they merely convert it from light to electric current. Nothing magic here. And solar panels were used by the space program as early as 1958. Nothing hidden here. Also, cars do not run on oxygen alone, unless combined with a fuel for the oxygen to oxidize. As far as I know, they cannot run on water at all, unless it's split into H2 and O2, which is also not a secret.

"It is clear to me why they do not focus on spiritualism or allow colloidal silver and calcium bentonite clay into the educational system, however, please be kind enough to help us solve this situation by picking that apart as well."

I am not sure what educational system you are referring to, but these items belong only in a narrow niche of soil science or agronomy. If they hold up under scientific scrutiny - i.e. they have observable effects - I don't see why they would be excluded from, say, a university. If you expect 6th graders to be taught the spiritualism of clay and silver, I can see why you are frustrated.

"Where is your proof?"

I do not have to prove that the stuff doesn't work as claimed; you have to prove that it does.

"ok so i do not have too much proof either but only because of the information kept hidden from us. and what i am showing you is a lot simpler to work out than chemistry."

You are showing us nothing but unsubstantiated claims, many of which do not apply to the issues in question. Based on my knowledge of soil, concrete, plants, chemistry, and toxins, your claims do not make any sense. If you do not have much proof, you may be deluding yourself.

"Please do us a favour and pick these things apart. It would help me work out something in particular. please show me the things you can pick apart regarding calcium bentonite clay and colloidal silver?"

I'll quote your previous post in the next post, if you insist.

"One of the many people I like to see positive affirmations from is John Assaraf:

You literally become what you think about most.

Your life becomes what you have imagined and believed in most.

The world is literally your mirror, enabling you to experience in the physical plane what you hold as your truth … until you change it."

You might consider this in relation to yourself. I do not wish to engage in ad hominem attacks, so please don't take this personally, but if you see the world in terms of a vast conspiracy theory where simple information about such simple things can somehow be kept from 6 billion people, maybe the problem is your own view of the world and others.

"For if you learn about colloidal silver and calcium bentonite clay then you will give your garden and nature exactly what it needs to revitalize and neutrilize its self."

Why does a garden, or 'nature', need to neutralize itself? Neutralize what? Why does it need colloidal silver to do so? Why does nature need humans to feed it colloidal silver?

"sorry for the late reply. I would love to tell you more but please be patient for a few more days and I will give you all the information for free on the website I am building."

And there it is. You're selling an ideology, or a product, or both.

I asked, 'Please elaborate on exactly what is toxic about concrete...'

You have still not identified any toxins present in concrete or soil, nor how they would be treated by these concoctions.

You referred to Ca bentonite clay as 'volcanic ash', which it is not.

"Calcium bentonite clay and colloidal silver are two of the best kept secrets from society and are kept from us for one reason only... these two ingredients (+ hemp) completely destroy plans to make money and boost the industrial revolution."

I think you have been smoking the third ingredient or a close relative.

"Calcium bentonite clay has such a powerful electromagnetic charge that it draws all the toxins and heavy metals to stick the the clay like velcro. They are then drawn inside the clay whilst the healthy minerals are released from the clay. "

Again, what toxins are you referring to? Yes, clay has strong adsorptive properties for positively charged ions. Heavy metals would cling to bentonite. However, the low background levels of heavy metals in the vast majority of soils are not harmful and do not require any treatment. In which case the product does nothing. Also, you have not addressed the idea that many soils are already full of clay, so that adding bentonite would be unwise.

"Plus adding calcium bentonite to water will make the water totally harmless, therefore watering plants with this type of water will add to your beautiful gardens."

Hogwash. What is in my water that is harmful, that would be removed by bentonite?

"Colloidal silver is the most natural and strongest antibiotic in the world, "

Why does my soil, or concrete, need a powerful antibiotic? Even if colloidal silver is the strongest one in the world, which I doubt. Soil thrives on microbial life, so adding antibiotics to it would be dumb.

"We can use calcium bentonite clay and colloidal silver to neutrilize and replenish nature whatever the case"

The very definition of pseudoscience.

Ever see Idiocracy? "Brawndo. It's what plants need." The dumbing of the human race is well underway.

Thanks for replying.... I have read what you said and am looking forward to replying to you. I am going to enjoy and really hope I manage to get through to someone in the end.

And yes I do sometimes smoke? Like I bet you sometimes drink? or do something that is far less natural than cannabis?

My friends, I am not able to reply today as I am busy. but at least we argree on one thing already.... The dumbing of the human race is well underway... so underway that the wool has been pulled over most of our eyes already.

You seem to be very closed minded.... let me guess, you do not believe in extraterrestrial life etc. and you think we are the only things in this vast space we call the universe?

lol and you eat gluten fluoride and aspatame like its a joke. i bet you think microwaves are safe and tap water is ok to drink? and you trust a lot of the stuff you read on the news and TV....

haha that is ok because i expect millions and millions of people like you already to go up against people like me in the near future so thank you for the support and I will get back to you in a day or two :)

I am sorry for my rudeness. I am not very articulate and I am still quite angry with the knowledge I have come across the past few years. I feel privileged speaking to you. I am sorry for jumping to conclusions assuming you were closed minded. :) It is clear as day there is life elsewhere.

I use that question to find out if it is worth talking to someone about my beliefs, so thank you.

Please keep talking to me. I can ony imagine how much knowledge you have in your head and i would like to ask you if you wouldnt mind helping me proove whether I am speaking the truth.

and yes it does have a lot to do with with soil health and nature in general.

There is little evidence because it was previously kept from us while clever people like yourself were taught all the thinngs they wanted to teach us.

surely what I am saying is possible? Imagine many of us consiracy theorists were actually onto something like you scientists, but then our dreams are crushed.

Please will you research calcium bentonite clay and colloidal silver and see if you can proove they work or not.

I have completed one test.

I used 1 pint of waterd down orange paint, 2 empty pint glass, 2 coffee filters, and a tablespoon of clay.

after pouring half the glass into filter one, I added the clay and stirred for 20 seconds and then added into the 2nd filter.

filter one had watered down paint in the bottom of the glass. The 2nd filter had clear water and no orange paint.

the original reading was 256ppm and the added clay reading was approx 60 ppm higher which i can only suggest it had something to do with the 57 minerals the clay releases

"filter one had watered down paint in the bottom of the glass. The 2nd filter had clear water and no orange paint."

That makes perfect sense, as bentonite is commonly used as a settling agent. I use it myself to help settle the yeast from beer, so it looks more clear. This is a well known phenomenon, but settling alone proves nothing about removal of contaminants.

"the original reading was 256ppm and the added clay reading was approx 60 ppm higher which i can only suggest it had something to do with the 57 minerals the clay releases"

256 ppm of what? I can't evaluate the second claim - that the clay is releasing something - unless I know what is being measured.

Also, I thought you said the clay was completely filled up with Ca++ which it would release as it takes up other elements. Where did the 57 minerals come from and what are they? Do I want them in my water?

I am really surprised by some of the answers on here. They seem to be varied as opinions on future weather patterns. Someone even said concrete is "lime, water and aggregate"? I hope to clarify statements like these. Let me pre-emptively state that my occupation is as a Technical Representative for a large Concrete and Cement packaging Corporation. I also serve on two Technical Committees that write specifications on Cement. I will try to keep this response in Layman's terms, so it is easily understood for all that read this article.

Cement is derived from taking ground Limestone and then kilning it at very high temperatures to produce a finished Cement product. When it is kilned, the chemical composition changes from its base raw limestone. Cement is then blended with Coarse (Rock) and Fine (Sand) Aggregates. Sometimes Fly Ash (Coal that has been burned and recouped) as well as Silica Fume (Derived as a by-product from the production of elemental silicon or ferrosilicon alloys in electric arc furnaces) are added. Often Air Entrainment admixtures are also added for better freeze thaw resistance as well as high range water reducers/Super Plasticizer's in the case of higher strength concretes or when you are attempting to beget a desire trait from the finished concrete. There are other admixtures that can be added but I won't get in to all the variations of mix designs. The last component is water and that is self explanatory.

The Topic Question (Is Concrete OK near Garden) is best answered this way...While Concrete is in its plastic state; Yes the cement component is caustic to vegetation and will often cause a temporary deterioration in that vegetation. Of course you would not want to place concrete directly on any shrub or flower bed while in this state, but once Concrete has set, there may be a very minUTE leaching of lime that is contained within the cement matrix. This may actually add a benefit to the soil depending on the soil conditions where you live. And this was more prevalent in cements of old but is not seen too often now, unless host soils contain lime that leaches through (In the case of retaining walls). In fact Cement and Concrete are routinely used to encapsulate toxic soils nowadays by Environmental Companies to reduce the leaching of the numerous chemicals that were used in Heavy Manufacturing of the past. Feel secure to cast your concrete garden edging at the side of your garden. I hope this helps.

The original question was posted 10 years ago.

It was resurrected 6 years ago by somebody with an agenda.

And now it's coming back from the dead.

Even those who suggested there may be ph problems said they'd be temporary. It's been 10 years.

Isn't there a Disney song?

Let it go.

Even our 3 yo g-daughter knows the song. What's bewildering is what was HU-49800564 doing or searching for when he/she/it came accross this old post?

As a "Technical Representative for a large Concrete and Cement packaging Corporation," he/she was probably looking for posts about Concrete and Cement. Just a wild guess. <shrugs>

I re-read the thread and the misinfo about what concrete is made of jumped out at me too, but it no longer needs to be corrected. IIRC, limestone has some silicates in it, i.e. other minerals besides calcium carbonate. Those become silicon oxides in the furnace, which along with the calcium oxide, all react with water and lock up into a massive crystal formation (cement). It's pretty cool, actually. I wonder how they first figured it out. I think the Romans were using a form of concrete.

It's not just that the Romans knew how to make concrete, they were doing things with concrete that are still considered amazing (so I guess concrete must be much older). The Romans had a type of concrete that would set in water and get even more durable. They're only know cracking the code. https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/news/a27186/ancient-roman-concrete-mixture-seawall/