I think the volunteer tomato plants that spring up from whereever you lay that compost would be a bigger problem in my mind.

Yes, I've been there, done that. Amazing how tough tomato seeds really are. Even sitting in a frozen compost half the winter left hundreds of viable seeds.

There is research out there that indicates that if diseased plant tissue is composted the bacteria that digest that material will develop immunities that will help control those plant diseases. I correspond with people all over the world that have composted diseased plant tissue and found that has helped suppress those plant diseases. This is one of the things that got Sir Alberts attention about making compost in Indore, India and this is what Friend Sykes did with that sick farm in England that he wrote about.
There are people that do not believe that, however.

The vast majority of composting information resource organisations recommend that most people do not try to compost plants with diseases or attached seeds (especially weeds). If the composting is not complete, the risk of spreading disease or viable seeds is greater.

When I talk to beginner composters, I recommend they leave out these higher risk items.

Lloyd

kimmsr said " I correspond with people all over the world that have composted diseased plant tissue and found that has helped suppress those plant diseases"

Can you explain how these composted diseased tissues suppress disease?

The same way you develop immunities to disease, your bodies immune system develops antigens to the disease pathogens you are exposed to and the bacteria that digest the plant material that becomes compost will do the same, if given a chance. There is some research out there that strongly indicates this wil not happen in a 14 day compost pile, that it takes months to happen, and that is why longer composting times, not the 14 day, are often recommended.

According to the University of Maine, if your compost heap gets above a certain temperature, it kills the spores.

15. Can plants with late blight be disposed of by composting?

Yes if done correctly. Considering the potential impact of not composting correctly, especially with potato plants that have tubers, it is prudent for home gardeners to bag and trash the plants (see previous question). Plants should not just be dumped on a compost pile. Either cover with a tarp or bury them so that there is not an opportunity for spore production and dispersal by wind to another planting or farm before the plant tissue completely dies. Based on results from a laboratory study, temperatures above 115 F, which commonly occur in proper compost piles, are adequate to kill even the pathogenÂs most durable type of spore (oospore) within 2 hours. Oospores are unlikely to be present because formation requires interaction between individuals of the pathogen (aka isolates) of opposite mating type (equivalent of male and female). All isolates tested so far have been the same mating type.

So compost properly and cover them with enough material to keep the spores from floating around. A 6" layer of almost anything would work.

kimmsr - Bacteria do not and can not develop antigens. They don't have the physiology to permit it.

Friend Sykes and Sir Albert Howard were writing half a century or more ago. We've learned a bit about plants, composting, and plant diseases since then.

My experience with our slow compost pile has been that both seeds and plant pathogens do not survive the process. Our pile has a pit underneath, about 12 inches deep, by 4 foot diameter. Material will have been in the pile for at least 6 months, before it gets down into the pit. This material will remain in the pit for 12 months, before being dug up and removed, as finished compost, in the spring. In the fall, in October, we clean up the garden, and include plant materials that look diseased in our compost pile. This material will be covered with at least 12 inches of shredded tree leaves, put down in November or early December. I open up the pile in April or May, first moving the cap aside, and next digging out the material in the pit. There might be a few pieces of wood to pick out, because I routinely add brush to the pile, up to 1 inch diameter. The finished compost goes onto the garden plot, or it might be used for amending soil before planting blueberry shrubs. I am not seeing sign of plant disease, or weed infestation, that could be attributed to our compost pile. Exactly how seeds and pathogens are destroyed is unknown. I can only say that 18 months in the pile has been sufficient, so far, to accomplish this end.

I was just about to post on the same issue and glad someone else did.

OK, I put in some diseased plant stalks and even some grungy tomatoes before I found out I couldn't. I tried to fish them out but probably didn't get them all. So I got ahold of some anti-fungus stuff and watered down on the pile with the stuff mixed into a watering can of water at the proper concentration for application to plants.

Does that make sense? If so, should I apply the stuff again in a few weeks? Having to yank out all my tomato plants and getting ZERO tomatoes was heartbreaking, and I sure don't want that to happen again.

I have never put any anti-fungal chemical into our pile. Generally, an anti-fungal, anti-biotic, anti-bacterial, herbicide, or pesticide will disrupt the pile big time. These should never be added. If you are concerned about pathogens in the pile, the only solution that I am aware of is to cover the pile with leaves and/or brush, and leave it alone for a year or two. It can be watered during drought conditions, but that is the only care it would receive. What will happen, over time, is that a community of normal and expected soil bacteria and soil fungi will live and multiply. The pathogens will disappear, eventually.

Even though Sir Albert Howard wrote his books about a century ago, much more than half a century, his findings are still very valid today and all of composting is based on what he found there at Indore. He also asked questions about things outside his field of expertise that are just now being studied. That Friend Sykes could take a very sick and unprofitable farm and, applying the principles epoused by Howard, turn it into a profitable farm is an indication that what Howard wrote about was valid and maybe today needs to be looked at with a new understanding.

"all of composting is based on what he found there at Indore"

That's a pile of compost!

Ever read the writings of John Evelyn? Coke of Norfolk? William Ellis?

Ya, nobody ever composted stuff before Sir A. finally wrote it down in a book!

snort

Lloyd

You guys are still as funny as ever!

So as not to hijack: I compost my tomato plants no matter what. Just can't let it go to waste.

Val

Then what do I do, start over?

Maybe if you're worried about it you could use this compost around trees, shrubs and flowers. Then you wouldn't be using it in your garden area.

Val

Evidently it just makes the composting process slower. See

http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/compost/fundamentals/consideration_pesticides.htm

Fungicides: Vegetation that has been just sprayed with a fungicide may suppress the development of decomposing fungi if it is added to the compost pile. A few weeks will degrade the fungicide enough so that it will not effect the decomposition process. Currently, one turf fungicide, PMA, contains mercury and may only be used by commercial pesticide operators. This should not be used.

Mind you, I sprayed fungicide "into the compost," I didn't just add vegetation treated with fungicide.

Which fungicide did you use? There should be a "time before harvesting after application" on it somewhere. I'd allow that amount of time, plus maybe 10-20%, before I used the post.

As an example, I use a fungicide called Topaz on my trees. It's approved by our regulatory agency and has a 38 day ban before harvesting the fruit.

Lloyd

I'm in the city now so I don't have the product in front of me. I am fairly sure it was an Ortho product and I THINK it was Ortho Garden Disease Control, with Daconil. The package here looks familiar: http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/ortho-garden-disease-control-concentrate-p-62817.html?ref=42

I'll no for sure at the end of the week.

Just one more point: I just started this pile and don't expect to use it until next spring. My concern is whether I've totally screwed it up, that good soil fungus will not develop, and I need to start over.

My experience with fungicides is on trees and wheat. In both cases the fungicide is not all that effective long term. I wouldn't sweat it in a long term CP, them bacteria and fun guys are tough little dudes in the long run.

Lloyd

I sure hope so! Oh, this is sort of funny. I came down with a kind of unexplained intestinal issue (I'll leave out the gory details) after I started my compost pile. It went after a few days. I have a cast-iron stomach. I am almost 100% sure it was from those pesky little bacteria from the pile and some less than vigilant hand washing on my part.

Well this is going to freak out the senior and maybe a lot of others as well.

A couple of Saturdays ago I had to de-bag over 500 bags of smelly, wet, slimy, disgusting (insert your favorite descriptor) yard trimmings. After I was done, when I took the tractor back to the shop, my brother had picked up a couple of subs for lunch. Without thinking too much about it, and without washing up, I ate my sub and followed that up with a beer. Every time I took a bite I could smell the rot on my hands. There was absolutely no affect on my health!

I'm gonna guess that I have been so exposed to everything under the sun, my immunity system is in primo shape! (or it could be the beer!)

:)

Lloyd

In my opinion too many people are overly concerned with cleanliness. Being exposed to some "germs" is probably a healthy thing. That said though I do tend to wash my hands before eating especially if I been out working with my hands.

"Ya, nobody ever composted stuff before Sir A. finally wrote it down in a book!"
Sir Albert wrote about what he observed, so very obviously people were composting before he wrote An Agruicultural Testament. At that time it was common to spread compost, more often than not refered to as "manuring" which has caused some people, that do not know their history, to believe farmers were spreading animal manures, not compost, on their fields. However, not everyone made compost the same way, and farmers were making the transition to synthetic fertilizers which Sir Albert concluded was not a sustainable system of farming.