Ugh! Dry shade is tough!

* Sweet Autumn fern (dryopteris)

* Wild Oat grass (chasmantium) - which doesn't look like grass, it is reminiscent of bamboo.

* Solomon's Seal

Once you get these established, they should be able to hold their own in drier shade.

Mxk3 - I know! That's why I have ignored it for so long.
Thanks for the suggestions.

I should probably put some compost down in the Spring and check out the plants you mentioned. Not sure about the Oat Grass...think I had that and it spread over into another garden invading everything. Maybe it was a different variety.

Based on my own experience, I have found that most plants that will tolerate shady spots, require water (at least a good soaking once a week). Plants that I have had success with in shady spots are:

Bugbane (cimicifuga)
Japanese painted fern (a beautiful-textured plant)
Astilbe
Ligularia (likes water).

I'm sure there are other gardeners with many more suggested plants, perhaps some that don't require much water.

There are very few plants for dry shade. The best for me so far are lily of the valley, solomon's seal and epimedium. Some ferns will do well, but most need a rich soil and some moisture. Same for most woodland plants such as trillium. Sedums can tolerate the dry conditions but don't like too much shade. Heuchera will do also but needs sharp drainage.

Definitely not ligularia. Mine wilts when it doesn't have enough water.

Try Epimedium for a groundcover; it's slow but very resilient; Lamium and Lamiastrum both work in my dry shady spots; Also as mentioned earlier sweet autumn fern works well, and for color a cultivar 'Brilliance' has bronze and amber new growth. I have also had great luck with oat grass but be careful because it will reseed with abandon and get weedy. I also use Liriope spicata and sweet woodruff (Galium odoratum) alot in low maintenance shade areas; Perhaps also try low shrubs such as Diervilla and Symphoricarpos and larger shrubs such as Viburnum x rhitidophullum 'Alleghany' or Eleutherococcus seiboldiana 'Variegata'

Katyrose - I have Bugbane and Astilble I can split and move to that spot..thanks. Didn't think they would do well in dry shade.

Maureen - so, Ligularia is out!

Palustris - Is it better to plant any of your suggestions this Fall? Or is it better to wait til the Spring?

No, no, no - astilbe will not do well in *dry* shade. Astilbe is most definitely a moisture-lover, and a once-a-week soaking in a dry bed is just not going to cut it. Japanese ferns are going to be toast, too in dry shade.

Like I mentioned, dryopteris will tolerate drier shade once established. I've heard lady ferns are tolerant of somewhat drier soil, but I haven't had that experience - if the soil dries out, my lady ferns balk big time.

Liriope is good suggestion mentioned above. Nice grass-like foliage and also tolerates drier soil.

What palustris said.( except that i have lost numerous Eleutherococcus in dry shade.)

plus: the single best dry shade plant in my world:
Persicaria Lance Corporal. Also does fine in HOT dry.
Tremendous foliage; no pests; lovely sept flowering.

plus: coydalis lutea; blooms longest of any perennial here; april through hard frost/Nov.
And japnese painted fern

Shrubs: rhodotypus, kerria picta, red winged euonymus, some hollies.

I grow some of all the above under sugar maples
which are notorious for sucking up nutrients and moisture from the soil under them.
best,
Mindy

Some epimediums tolerate dry shade much better than others. Another plant that loves dry shade is Lamistrum 'Herman's Pride', completely non invasive and very hansome with variegated leaves and small yellow flowers in late spring.

If you want to go for a shrub, look at Eleutherococcus sieboldianus variegatus. Very handsome. I've also had considerable success in dry shade with Sarcococca hookeriana var. humilis--lovely woody groundcover.

Mxk - thanks for the heads-up on Astilbe.

Mindy - This area although a decent size, is surrounded by 1 large tree and 2 smaller ones, so I'm sure to be dealing with tree roots sucking up moisture.

Laceyvail - I was thinking of several shrubs and the rest perennials.

Question - Do you order your plants from a catalog - or just visiting garden centers?

We have some Nandina shrubs in dry shade. This is only the first year so I can't tell how they will do long term but so far they seem to be happy enough. They were transplanted over there in late May. I was thinking of Astilbe for my area too so thanks for saving me the trouble!

I have a similar area in my backyard under a maple tree. Surrounded by full plantings, it looked like a black hole. The only thing that does well is a bench (and potted plants).

I have four 30 yr old silver maple trees. I have had good luck with Honeybells hostas, Symphytum and believe it or not Loosestrife Gooseneck and Strawberry and Cream Ribbon Grass. The invasiveness of these last two plants is kept in good check in these undesireable conditions. They are both shorter than usual and the blooms smaller but still plentiful. I also just put a plug of Artemesia Oriental Limelight in about 2 months ago. Its growing slowly -we'll see how it looks next year. I also have Persicarie Painters Palette which does fine but Lance Corporal may be better if it doesn't reseed like PP. Lamiastrum, Ranunculus Reptans and wild toad lily also do well. The hard part was planting. Cutting through the roots to make a decent hole was a challenge! I had Cimicifuga in dry shade and it barely bloomed at all. -Also, I hav e native white achillea growing and blooming there for about 3 yrs.

Hope this helps....

Some Astilbes will do well in such conditions once established, especially the Arendsii ones. I have them under a maple, close to the base. They've been there for a few years. In the spring they get mulched and that's it.

Thalictrums and Columbines also do well. I also have three good clumps of Japanese Painted Ferns which I have to divide. :O)

Cimicifuga is still too early to call in that area for me. The plant grew well, but it was quite young and just planted this spring, so no flowers yet.

Consider that I am on the east coast and so our summers are probably not as dry as your's.

I order everything by mail. Local nurseries have very little, but even the largest and best nursery in the world can't carry everything. I trust Bluestone Perennials, Rare Find Nursery, Fairweather Gardens, Seneca Hills Perennials, Klehms Song Sparrow Farm.

Hi,
In dry shade, no supplemental watering after establishing of course, I have:
daffodils
virginia bluebells(summer dormant)
phlox stolonifera(it spreads but not aggressively in dry shade)
hellebore niger
geranium maculatum
cyclamen cilium(blooms in the fall, leaves persist through winter, summer dormant)
hosta
columbine

I'm probably forgetting something, but that most of them that have done really well.
Remy

Both Aster divaricatus (White wood aster) and Aster cordifolius (Blue wood aster) will do well and bloom profusely in the dry shade under maples. They are both native and prolific reseeders, but the dry shade should help keep them in check.

I've also got orange ditch lilies and Vinca minor, holding their own under my maples. Vinca minor is in fact the only thing growing happily under a huge Norway maple in the yard.

Hi again,
I forgot about Campanula poscharskyana.
Remy

Thanks for all the great suggestions.

Laceyvail - Think I'll check out the catalogs because there are too many times I can't find some of the great plant suggestions at my local nursery. I just miss planting the larger plants versus the small ones that come from the catalogs.

Remy and Terrene - more great ideas to mull over..thanks.

Janice, I have a friend who has quite a large shady bed that is about the driest bed I've ever seen! In it are several groundcovers - vinca and sweet woodruff were already there; the sweet woodruff has done wonderfully since we started amending the soil every fall (composted manure and a layer of shredded leaves). We added chrysogonum, which has done incredibly well, and lamium White Nancy, which hasn't! I may try laceyveil's suggestion of lamiastrum Herman's Pride in place of the lamium.

We also have planted hostas, anemones, columbines, perennial foxgloves, alchemilla, primroses, dicentra, lobelia, monkshood, cyclamen, lilies, astilbes, and spring bulbs. Everything is doing fairly well. The lilies have bloomed for three years but are not multiplying all that well. The anemones have finally established this year.

We planted the astilbes and lobelia not knowing they needed more moisture than was available in that bed, but surprisingly, they have done quite well.

:)
Dee

My Autumn fern isn't too picky and seems pretty bullet proof. However, my Japanese painted ferns start dying off when I don't water supplementally, so I would not recommend them for a DRY shady spot. Nor Astilbe. I echo the recommendation for Solomon's Seal (polygonatum), vinca minor, and heuchera. Is it full shade? If it gets a couple hours of sun, campanula would work well. An annual that adds a lot of color to a shady area is caladium. Very low maintenance, and you could dig up the bulbs, overwinter them in the house, and replant the following year. For that matter, you could plant Elephant Ears. They would make a dramatic statement in that bed. Brent and Becky's has a wide selection of caladium bulbs (way more than what you see in the nurseries).

The area I live in has nurseries that have extensive selections of plants. The only thing I get online are lily bulbs, caladium bulbs, certain roses, and certain hostas.

Deanna

Dee - I noticed you said "we" planted in your friend's garden...that's great that you help your friends with the physical aspects as well as the ideas. I didn't think
Anemone would survive in shade! I have some to divide and move over there. Do you think that's something I should do this Fall or wait til Spring??

Deanna - I love Caladium - just never think to plant bulbs!
I always buy them already established and then wait too long in the fall to dig them up and put in the basement for the following Spring. I'm going to order the bulbs...can't wait!

I thought B&B did not have a great reputation as a mail order house...have you ordered from them regularly?

Gee Janice, I didn't know anemones would survive in sun, lol! At least not in full sun. I always thought they were shade plants. I can't help you with the division question. Anemones have never done well for me, and in my friend's garden they are just getting going, so we haven't reached the division stage yet.

BTW, I buy most of my plants on-line. For bulbs, I like John Scheepers. As for plants, I buy a lot at Bluestone, and recently used Shooting Star and Forest Farm nurseries, and was happy with both.

:)
Dee

How dry is dry? I have dry shade/semi shade so dry, echinops droop. However, under the redbud under the ash tree, in the sandy soil, some things need water less often than others. In that category, I place geranium phaeum, persicaria/tovara 'Painter's Palette,' salvia koyame, some campanulas, columbines.

Dee - My Anemones did just about nothing last year, but this year they came up late and have been growing slowly all season.
Never heard of John Sheepers, but like hearing of new places to get plants. It makes sense to order from catalogs to get exactly the type of plants you may want. Thanks for the tips.

Dirtdiver - Dry as in under a 100 year old tree. But, do like persicaria.

Janice,

Brent & Becky's is a very reputable source. In fact, they're on Garden Watchdog's top 30 list. I order from them every year. Their prices are good, and I get very healthy bulbs from them. By the way, you don't have to stick caladium bulbs down in your basement to overwinter. The bulbs will overwinter well in a 70 degree area. If you leave them upstairs, you might not forget about them!

Deanna

Here is a link that might be useful: Brent & Becky's ratings on Garden Watchdog

Deanna - That's good to know...thought I had to keep tubers and bulbs in a brown paper bag in the basement.
The other reminder I need for myself is to remember to dig them up before they turn soft. Last year I waited too long.

Thanks for the link. I'm going to try planting them in the shady area mentioned in this thread. Do I need to add anything to the soil or just dig and cover with mulch??

Jan

A little fertilizer, and they're good to go.

As far as storage goes, it depends on what kind of bulb or tuber. Most do like it rather cool, but caladiums are not like that.

Deanna

Deanna - Thanks! Now just have to get the bulbs, plant in the late fall and figure out a way to keep the army of squirrels away from them!

palustris,
oatgrass in dry shade: does yours flop? i have consistently floppy oatgrass wherever it grows, so i whack it once or twice in early summer. i'm now tempted to try it in my driest of dry sugar maple area....

oh, btw, i have also had very good luck in very dry shade-with many different lamiums (though not white nancy) and with the variegated yellow and green bamboo(PLEIOBLASTUS VIRIDISTRIATUS) but it does run like crazy - seeking the sun.
best,
mindy

Interesting discussion going on about Astilbes...I have the Arendsii type, planted about 10 years ago under a pear tree. Over the years it has naturalized all over the garden, it has seeded itself in the full sun, shade, semi-shade, even the cracks between my pavers on the patio! I water my entire garden about once a week during drought periods, but this season has been somewhat rainy, so I haven't watered much at all. So, I guess it depends on which type of Astilbe you plant, because I planted a different type in semi-shade a few years ago, and the thing died the first season!! Go figure! LOL. Every garden is different (soils, climate, sunlight, etc.), which makes gardening somewhat of a challenge to see what will survive and thrive. You just have to try things yourself because you just never know! Plants will surprise you all the time...which is what I find so amazing about gardening.

Katyrose,

A pear tree would not provide a very dry area compared to some maples. Also, if you water once a week, it is no longer dry.

Madtripper, if you read my post a little closer, I wasn't saying growing under a pear tree was a dry spot. I was merely pointing out that some of my astilbes self-seeded in places where you would never think of planting them, and they flourished without watering, such as between the pavers on my patio.

As Tiffy 25 wrote:
"Some Astilbes will do well in such conditions once established, especially the Arendsii ones. I have them under a maple, close to the base. They've been there for a few years. In the spring they get mulched and that's it."

And Diggerdee wrote:
"We planted the astilbes and lobelia not knowing they needed more moisture than was available in that bed, but surprisingly, they have done quite well."