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When does New Dawn/Dr. Van Fleet Bloom in Zone 5?

judith5bmontreal

15 years ago

Hi everyone. I don't know which one I have, but after three years, since it has never rebloomed, I am assuming it's Dr.Van Fleet. I am getting tons of vegetative growth, main canes are right across the arch, and piles of laterals from there, but still no blooms, or even buds at the ends. Don't these climbers bloom by now?

Thanks,

Judith

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Comments (11)

gardengirl_17
15 years ago
For me, New Dawn blooms the first week or two of May. It just passed it's peak this week but still has blooms on it.
mary1nys
15 years ago
My New Dawn has just started blooming this week.
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Aloha and her sport Dixieland Linda(apricot) were on the list of cold hardy roses at Rogue Valley Roses. Got me thinking. Bad habit, I know. I now own a bunch of climbing roses with no scent. American Pillar, Dr. Van Fleet, Paul's Scarlett, Bleu Magenta and Ash Wednesday. I suspect Ash Wednesday will start to smell like apples after it gets out of its pot. Greenmantle did. It's disturbing. They look so great in the pictures. However, they're all pretty interesting roses. The first three have gotten little care, but now I intend to coddle them. Then I'm thinking of some trompe d'loile by growing them together with something scented. Ash Wednesday is really odd. The flowers are grey, but then some bloom peachy brown. I guess the word I would use is sophisticated. I can't think what would enliven the bordello tones of American Pillar , and Paul's Scarlett is just plain scarlett. Bleu Magenta's going up with the lovely smelling Ghislaine de Feligonde, which may or may bloom at the same time. And I forgot about Madame Plantier, which I bought. Nice scent. I'm thinking of a baby Mottisfont, but this crowd I have rounded up is a bit like the Queen having a beer at the Lounge Bar and Cafe with Horse Morgan. So do any of the Doctor's children rebloom on new wood with a nice scent? There's several, though I can only think of Awakening.
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I'm finally able to access my pictures so I'll post a few here of the roses I mentioned. Quadra in my experience is at least as thorny as ND, but the flowers last much longer. Being a semi-double, you don't notice them fading as much and I've seen clusters last a good 2 weeks without getting ratty. I'd say mine that's maybe 7 or 8 years old blooms more or less all summer, taking a break in August as most of my roses do. Here's a shot after I finally wrestled him into an arch after a few years free standing: Here's my Colette after about 3 years, making her a young climber. She's survived both polar vortex winters, so I'd say she's fully hardy in my zone 5. Lunar Mist climbs quite well along the fence for a good 10 feet or more and is usually tip hardy for me. And even though my "not RdV" doesn't repeat, my Reine des Violettes is a great statement in spring and totally tip hardy every year. It would laugh off zone 4 winters too I suspect. The "real" RdV should repeat fairly well and it's apparently a little more of a purple cast than mine, which is a good thing in my world. Hope this helps - you have many good options. Cynthia
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That's more than one bush. I planted 3 different one's at the same time. From the left are red roses which barely grow and I think has thrips. Next to the red is white, then ND next to it. To the right of ND are Knockout's. Help me figure something out. Does New Dawn come in white also? I can't remember the white rose's name. But I can remember the pink ND. Do you think the 2nd bush is of the ND family? I might as well ask here, should I destroy the red rose bush? It forms large buds then never open. Thankfully the disease never spread to the other bushes but the red has had the same disease since I planted it. I need to read up on sport. Never heard about it before i/r/t roses. My goal is for a fence line and if the ND won't bloom more than once, I need to find a vine of some sort that can grow in it.
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mcnastarana, I can think of a few ways our garden might have Awakening planted in the 1930s. First, ND was a sensation when it was introduced in 1930. The local nursery in our town where my DH's ancestors got their roses is still going - it is the oldest continuously operating nursery in CA. Most of the old old rose I have identified in our garden were, when they were first bought and planted by my DH's ancestors, the hottest new roses. That nursery got all of the new exciting roses quite promptly. So, perhaps ND was purchased in the 1930s, planted, and by 80+ years later had sported to Awakening. A is said to be a sport of ND, so why not? The plant was certainly stressed, having the original place it was planted taken over by the huge quince bush. The original plant is still there, trying to climb up the quince bush and old ornamental crab apple tree nearby. Another thought is that perhaps the first sport of Dr. Van Fleet which was called ND WAS really A (I know I read that somewhere), which shortly thereafter sported again to what we now know as ND, and A was superseded in commerce by the new sport, as has happened to so many roses. Under that scenario, A remained itself in Czechoslovakia, to be found later. Another thought - accd to HMF, Awakening was "collected" in Czechoslovakia in 1988. Then it was re-named from its original 1935 name of Probuzeni to Awakening, and distributed by Beales starting in 1990. This implies to me that it was out or almost out of commerce for a long time. However, that does not mean that shortly after it was discovered in 1935 and named Probuzeni it could not have made it to this country, and to our local nursery. Calif nurseries in that period imported ALL of the latest roses, and since ND was such a sensation, I think that a more double version of it would have been too, if only briefly. Of course the above is just me having fun speculating - it would be great to know what really happened! I love rose mysteries, and don't really care if they get solved or not. The good news of course is that DVF, ND, and A are all still in commerce. Jackie
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donnaz5
15 years ago
Mine should bloom this coming week. My buds are showing color...I guess all of zone 5'ers aren't equal! I am guessing that yours will follow soon with buds..it's a tough rose..but I have New Dawn..don't know too much about DVF..good luck..donna
judith5bmontreal
Original Author
15 years ago
Thanks, everyone. Now I'm really concerned. I don't even have buds forming yet. I sure hope I'm not growing the rootstock....I will let you know!
Judith
greenhaven
15 years ago
Judith, my New Dawn is budded up and ready to bloom.

I have recently learned only a little bit about blind growth, or growth on the plant that does not terminate in buds. Since your plant has bloomed in the past it is not genetic. I understand the cause is damaged canes due to mechanical or insect damage. I don't know if this helps...
mary1nys
15 years ago
Last year I had a lot of winter kill on New Dawn and had to prune off alot of canes. Since it blooms on laterals from 2nd year wood...It really did nothing last year at all except grow sprawling 10 ft canes that did nothing but wave in the wind. This year I had a good 5-6 feet left on a few canes and so is now blooming off of those laterals. Did you have alot of winter dieback this year?
karl_bapst_rosenut
15 years ago
I planted 8 one year old cutting of New Dawn this spring, in pots, and placedthem in my unheated greehouse. They've all bloomed and did so a month ago. My in the ground New Dawn bloomed during the last two weeks and the blooms are about gone. All mine are own root.
Dr.Van Fleet is a once blooming rose that blooms on 2nd year wood.
If you experience a lot of winter die back requiring severe pruning each spring, you'll never get any blooms. If it was a grafted rose it may be the root stock.
berrytea4me
15 years ago
I planted a small 1st yr rooted cutting of New Dawn last fall. It has just begun to form a couple of buds.

I agree, z5's are not equal. I've been following the bloom season on another forum (different plants) and it seem the further north your z5, the later your season. It can be 3-4 weeks later than a more southerly zone 5. Plus, many people are experiencing a slow spring this year, especially Canada.

Keep watching, you may see buds yet!
judith5bmontreal
Original Author
15 years ago
Hi Everybody!
So sorry I haven't been back for so long - I really don't know where the times goes.
Thank you all for your input. Since I last posted, I have noticed a few buds, maybe 8 (!) on the whole plant. One has opened the proper light pink. Last year I had dieback down to about 3 feet, but it grew back like gangbusters, just as yours did, Mary, but no blooms at all. This spring, there was just a little tip damage, so I assumed I would get a wonderful show, it being the fourth year since planting. Even the second year, when it actually bloomed well, it never repeated, and so I thought then that perhaps I had Dr. Van Fleet. Does DVF form buds and bloom much later than New Dawn? Would it possibly form buds gradually, or only all at once?
Thanks so much for your help,

Judith
judith5bmontreal
Original Author
15 years ago
Sorry, I thought I would bump this up...I had a few more questions. I guess I took so long to get back to you, that you must have thought I forgot about you! My apologies:)
Judith
mary1nys
15 years ago
I'm starting to wonder what it is that I actually have. For the past three years my rose has either not bloomed or only bloomed on 2nd year wood. It was labelled as New Dawn but it may actually be Dr Van Fleet. In an event the buds formed all at once and it started blooming in mid June and is still blooming. I visited a city rose garden yesterday and all of their New Dawn's were blooming but a little past their peak.

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