Oh, and I'd like to call it either 4a or 4b or something, too :) :)

HI Laura
The good news is that whatever number you pick it will apply to some but not all of the roses in your yard. The bad news is that no particular rose will follow the "rules" for what it's supposed to do in any particular zone. Your New Dawn sounds like most of my 80 or so climbers, and I'm in zone 5 Nebraska. Rose survival depends on so many things beyond the zone for gardening, including how healthy and well-watered the rose was going into that particular winter, how early and hard the winter hit (freaky early bitter cold for us then warm again, not good for roses this year), how much snow cover there was, and how bad the winds were. Then there are microclimates in any yard, that vary by sun, wind, protection from walls, air circulation, and multitudes of other things. The sunny back of my house is effectively zone 6, and I have successfully overwintered tea roses that are supposedly toast in zone 7. The east side of the house right next to it is effectively zone 4 and nothing survives but Explorers, Easy Elegance, and some Austins.

Bottom line is just pick a number from your geographical location as only an estimate, then do site-by-site tests of what survives in what kind of winter around your yard. The number won't really tell you anything more than a rough estimate anyway, so it's not worth obsessing over. Roses however... (smile)

Cynthia

Thanks, Cynthia! That's neat to hear about your experience. My other non-explorer climbers are about the same as New Dawn, too.

I put a Madame Hardy rose out in the most open and windswept part of our property a few years ago, thinking it would be fine, and it was sooo beautiful.. but this year it died to within an inch of the ground! Lesson learned!

Well I planted my first one this weekend. This rose is supposed to be one of the hardiest in my zone and I am counting on it to be cane hardy because none of my climbers so far are cane hardy. I don't mind if it isn't a monster climber because that in itself is another problem.

^ Assuming you're in Canada? I've seen New Dawn look so nice up near Georgian Bay at Collingwood, where it's warm enough that its more horizontal habit makes it into a kind of 5-foot tall dense mound that's really beautiful. I've never actually seen it trained into a really upright climber.

I have a New Dawn that is about 7 feet tall on my arbor. I give it very little care and it has very little die back from winter. I live in 5b in north Mo just a few miles from southern Iowa. I have had it about 5 years maybe not sure.

Yes I do live in Canada, Laura. Well, I don't want it too overgrown therefore I will prune it shorter. I do want it to grow across my fence in the backyard. Thanks for the info everyone.

Looking back at this post, I am deciding whether or not to get rid of my ND just after just one season. My parents complained it is too thorny and I've found the flowers to be unimpressive. I need the space and would like to try new climbers this upcoming spring. What to do? Hmmm

Take it out life is to short and every year will just make it that much harder.

Start by researching possible replacements. Even in zone 6a (which I assume you are), true climbers aren't the easiest thing to find, and thorniness is part of the package. You may find something like Clair Matin really rocks your boat, but it isn't a matter of going through a catalogue, saying 'pretty' and getting something that works.

Also, something to consider is that it takes time for roses to get established before you will see their full potential. Especially climbers. How old is this rose? I think most people say by yr 3 or 4 is when they start showing their true potential.....

I don't think New Dawn needs 3 or 4 years to establish. I grew several over a period of years, fool that I was. At the time, this area was a zone 6. There was not a bit of dieback on any of them. When I removed my last one (no regrets), my location had been changed to zone 7. Anyway, I'd say New Dawn is probably cold hardy to at least zone 5. I recommend Colette as a possible replacement. What do you say, Cynthia (nippstress)? Quadra would be good, too. Diane

JJPeace - if the issue with New Dawn was at least partly the thorniness, then that's going to limit your options for a different climber. As Diane mentions, Quadra and many of the Explorers are very hardy and would easily bloom and cover an arch, but they're notably thorny as well (I have the Quadra scars to prove it). I agree that Colette and its yellow counterpart Lunar Mist are lovely climbers and hardy without problems here in zone 5. They're not quite as thorny as Quadra or New Dawn, but they definitely have thorns.

If your parents are looking for a mostly thornless climber, there are fewer options for our zones. Zephrine Drouhin is one of the notable thornless climbers and ZephyRose has some outstanding photos of this in her zone 8 yard. Mine was new last year and has survived a mild winter, but I've also had one die on me. In a slightly warmer zone 6 climate it might be better.

Other thornless or low thorn climbers would include the REAL version of Reine des Violettes. There are not RdV versions being sold under that name with the best of intentions (mine was from High Country Gardens) that are thorny and once bloomers. I know that Burlington has the real version and I have it on order this spring. It's hardy to z4 and if it's the real version it reblooms and is thornless.

I've heard that St. Swithun and A Shropshire Lad from the Austins are both low to no thorns, and they at least rebloom some. ASL has survived my mild winter and I have St. Swithun on order. From what I read, St. Swithun reblooms better and is pinker; ASL has an apricot cast that fades pretty quickly.

Hope this helps

Cynthia

Laura if you google or search usda plant hardiness zone for your city and state. Your official zone will come up.

I agree that everyone needs to keep in mind that climate zone is NOT the final determiner of how a rose will do. It also depends on the micro climate - is it protected up against a South facing wall? Drying wind, protection from the wind, humidity in the summer, etc. are all important. Roses do not obey "rules", and the best advice I can give to anyone is to experiment, within reasonable limits, and find out how different roses do in different parts of your garden.

Jackie

Thanks for all your suggestions everyone!

I love the roses you had mentioned Cynthia. I have never heard of lunar mist before and it seems hardy to even zone 2 and disease resistant too. I like that "romantica Austin" look too. I will definitely look into this one. I love Colette after seeing pictures of Diane's but I don't think it is hardy to my zone. HMF site list it as zone 7 and warmer hardiness. St. Switchin and A Shropshire lad is definitely not going to be cane hardy. I grow a few Austins but so far only L.D. Braitwaite seems to be somewhat cane hardy in my area providing it is a mild winter. I have thought about Quadra too and I like the look of it. Most roses are thorny so thorniness is not a surprise but I haven't given much thought about a very thorny climber...lol.

FWIW, Colette is also fully hardy in my zone, though nowhere near as lovely as Diane's since it's just coming into its third year. Quadra is absolutely reliable and a great repeater, but it has thorns that you don't want to mess with. Glad the ideas help -- most of mine are own root from Roses Unlimited if I recall.

Cynthia

Just curious, is Quadra more thorny than ND? Hopefully the flowers last longer?

My ND was done in by underground vole attack, but I do have the sport, Awakening. I had to move Awakening to the back fence because it was outgrowing it's spot. The thorny monster makes a good fence rose. I am in zone 5.

Love your climbers Cynthia. Wish I would have given Lunar mist more time too establish before impulsively removing it.

Wow, those are beautiful climbers Cynthia. I love them all. Thank you for your suggestions. I have yet to come across these roses but at least when I do I won't hesitate to buy them.

If you're still wondering, your zone is probably 4a/4b.

My city garden is somewhat
protected, but I never managed to save more than 3 feet of New Dawn's
canes and that under 5-6 feet of snow in the most exposed part of the
garden, where the wind tend to get stuck :-)

Until I moved and
dumped it unceremoniously, in a shady corner, close to the house, with
it's bud union above, the soil line (Dr. Huey graft), hoping it will
croak.

I was surprised that it had no die back at all last year,
when we had the coldest February in ages. I assume a combination of
being close to the house, buried under the snow, protected completely
from the wind protected it completely...

Thanks for the compliments! It's nice to know that we have climbers that can do well in our cold zones so that we're not limited to only a few with reputations like New Dawn. I agree with True Blue that New Dawn isn't all that hardy in my zone, not even in my top 20 of climbers.

Cynthia

I have to say the more I look at Colette and Lunar mist the more I like it. I need to find these roses!

Heirloom has colette but it is listed as hardy to zone 7... do you do any winter protection Cynthia? I would love to find lunar mist. Brushwood is out of stock...maybe ru?

Kelly - I do lay filled bags of leaves around the edges of all my rose beds, and stand filled bags of leaves around the super-fussy teas, but for the most part I just make sure the beds all have a layer of 3 inches or so of leaves going into the winter. I've found that this will help protect a little cane in the totally not hardy roses, but doesn't make much of a difference for the climbers. I don't winter protect the climbers, and since they're on my fence they get plenty of wind and weather over the winter. Colette has done fine for me and has enough surviving cane, though she's not always tip hardy. Lunar Mist is mostly tip hardy for me, so he's probably an even safer bet for you. I'm pretty sure my Lunar Mist was from Roses Unlimited.

Cynthia