In my cool and wet climate...it's growing at a snail's pace. I've only had it for a year, so I can't really provide much insight. It doesn't seem to be having any trouble with blackspot or mildew, but both of the two that I have are still SO small...I suppose I'll have to pinch off the buds this summer. I was at Heirloom Roses on Tuesday, where I bought mine, and noticed that two bushes of it had been removed. I wonder why? Vintage Gardens claims that it isn't always very healthy outside of California. My (old ) David Austin book says that it's not very disease resistant and requires regular spraying...Well, after all, it HAS been replaced. In stark contrast to PJ's slow growth: a band of Mayor of Castorbridge has quadrupled in size in the same amount of time, and is throwing basal shoots like there is no tomorrow.
Ingrid, speaking of D. Austin roses...do you still grow Queen Nefertiti? I found an old thread with photos of it posted by you. If so, I'm very curious to hear how it does for you (or "did" as it may be).

Zachary.

Randy, who started the PJ cult on GW, is in hot Texas, so maybe it's not Ingrid's heat. Randy recently reappeared with some posts on the ARF gallery, including PJ of course. PJ blooms well for me in mild Asheville as well. It did take a few years for her to amount to anything, though.

A good little rose, but not very resistant to blackspot here. Also petals get moldy brown spots after a rain--botrytis I guess. Certainly not the "perfect rose," but how many varieties will fit in a 2'x2' spot and produce beautifully formed, very fragrant old-style roses as PJ does?

We grew it years ago -- in fact, it was one of the first Austin roses we ever bought, from Sassafrass Nursery.

See: http://articles.latimes.com/2002/nov/03/local/me-sassafras3

(I always felt an attachment to that place, because I had had a Sassafrass-bred Poodle -- but that's a different story.)

We paid a whopping $45.00 for that container-grown plant, and for the time, it was a halacious lot of $$$.

We potted it up to a much larger container. It never grew well at all, and we at last figured out that it had a bad case of root gall. Plant and container went directly into the trash barrel.

I was never that thrilled with the blooms, even, so we never tried to replace it.

Jeri

If it was my plant I would give it a hit of Miracle Gro lawn food or blood meal and see what kind of reaction I got. I might keep dosing it with same until I did get a reaction. I'm doing that this year with 'Fair Bianca' to see what I get. I have nothing to lose on that little thing.

Roses can take a ridiculously long time to get going. 'Old Port' planted in 2006 I think finally graduated from being a rooted cutting to a plant--a very nice plant indeed. That is seven years! Was it worth the wait? Well, I wasn't in a particular hurry. OTOH, 'Touch of Class' after 10 years never amounted to a darn thing so I got rid of it.

It's fun actually to play around with the under performers. 'The Prince' which looked so pathetic for so long I got disgusted and over watered it to an absurd extent, like 10 gallons a day every day for two months. "Drown or grow" I told the Prince, and it decided to grow.

Are we not in So Cal are a little spoiled with our climate? We don't have to think as hard or be so skilled or experiment as as a gardener in MA or ME, do we? I mean we can and do work at it, but we can so often get away with planting a rose and turning the sprinklers on and it's happy.

Wish I had taken a pic of my Pretty Jessica before the heavy rainstorms attacked it (and my other roses) the past couple days. She was sensational--all those big fat densely packed blooms all over the bush!

Here's the best I can give you--pic from last year. Yes, a slight but persistent problem with that faint brown line along the edges when it is wet outside, but other than that, no disease problems at all -- and I do NOT spray this rose.

{{gwi:218926}}

Here she is not fully open--and minus that thin brown line (last year's pic)
{{gwi:207540}}

I ignored Pretty Jessica for a couple years after I first planted her because she wasn't doing much of anything. She is now about 4 years old in my garden, grows about 3x2.5, and gets completely covered with those fully packed blooms--and never gets disease--so don't try to talk me into spading my PJ--she's staying. So there!

Kate : )

Mine is going into its third or maybe fourth year and it's finally looking like something. Some healthy growth and a fat bud. I don't know how the blooms do in the rain as I haven't had many in the years I've had it. It's nice looking now, though, but small. I was glad to see Randy posting again on the gallery.

Certainly not the "perfect rose," but how many varieties will fit in a 2'x2' spot and produce beautifully formed, very fragrant old-style roses as PJ does?

David Austin hasn't completely abandoned it. He still lists it for sale on the UK version of his website and calls it "a good old fashioned rose for a very small garden." I think that is it's charm. Even minis will grow quite large in warm climates, and they won't give you those large fragrant flowers that PJ does.

My first one croaked because the mow and blow guys kept running it down. And I kept forgetting/was too lazy to dig it up and put it back in a pot for a while. It tried coming back twice from the roots, so I think it's a tough little plant. Just slow.

I replaced it because I love the flowers. I find the old fashioned quartered roses often reflex in my hot climate, but PJ's don't. They retain their flat bowl shape until the end. I like that. And they smell great.

I also like that Belle Isis, a rose I would love to grow but can't, is PJ's great great grandmother. Kinda distant, but still there.

Kate, is yours grafted or own root?

P.S. I don't normally disbud young roses because I'm in a warm climate with little winter, and I'm never in a hurry for plants to get big quick. But since PJ stays small, I will be disciplining myself to pinch off all the buds for this summer. When cool weather comes, I might let it bloom a little depending on it's size then. Will be a fun experiment.

From your replies, I gather it's slow to get going so I'm going to be patient. After seeing Kate's fat buds and gorgeous blooms I'll just wait until it's good and ready. I'm already giving it plenty of water, but a little more fertilizer probably wouldn't hurt.

Zachary, I'm afraid Queen Nefertiti is no more for two reasons. I planted it in the front square where I later decided that only cool colors would look good, which turned out to be true. I might have relocated the Queen except that she had the ugliest, thorniest, most misshapen "bush", if one could even call it that, in my entire garden. The flowers were nice though, although in my opinion not exceptional.

Ingrid

belle--I don't remember where I bought Pretty Jessica--I often buy my Austins directly from Austin (grafted), but since Austin gave up on PJ, at least in America, I might very well have had to buy it somewhere else. If that somewhere else was Roses Unlimited or Chamblees (my two favorite alternate rose nurseries), then PJ was probably own-root.

But I'm kinda thinking that I had to look far and wide to find a PJ at that time and therefore bought it from a nursery I normally do not buy from--and I'm kinda thinking it came grafted. But I really don't remember very clearly.

Suppose I could dig down and see if there is a graft (I always bury grafts several inches deep), but I don't think so. Just not in the mood to snoop around her understory. LOL

I do remember, after a couple years of her not doing much of anything, that I stepped up on her feeding and watering program--which I have been rather lax about before. She seemed to appreciate the extra attention.

Kate

It's probably been in for 5 years here. At first I was unimpressed. It did take a while to build. Now I'm really pleased with this rose. I appreciate the few small Austins that there are. It hasn't had disease problems in my garden either.

I don't mind waiting if the payoff is a beautiful rose in the long run, especially one that is disease-resistant. PJ has remained disease-free when other roses had mildew or blackspot this spring, and that's a big plus for me since I don't spray.

Pretty Jessica is one of the worst performing roses in my garden. Hasn't done a thing in 2 years. I will probably get rid of her next year.

If you can wait it out, jasper, --just hang in there for another year, or two years more--I think Pretty Jessica may surprise and delight you. The point of my post above was that I had to wait FOUR YEARS for her to start putting out blooms all over the place--big, fat, over-packed blooms! She is now one of my favorites.

Kate

Does she actually die back and get smaller, or does she just sit there, y'all? I have been imagining her in this one spot in my garden for a long time, but it's not a spot for a rose with no vigor.

Late vigor is fine, and short is what I'm looking for, but lots of die-back is no good in this area because I know how roses do there.

I have a rose that just sits there: Amy Johnson, a Clark rose that was almost lost to commerce. She looks fine, so I'm not worried really, but she literally doesn't change any!

No dieback on mine in zone 7a. Just very slow growth.

Ingrid

My climate is very different from yours, but please take or leave the info in my response according to usefulness. I don't have PJ at the moment, but I've grown her a couple of times here in PDX. Like Harborrose, my PJs were SLOW to develop. Like Zachary's, mine were healthy. They began to fill out nicely in time. Maybe 5 years? Like Kate, mine showed a touch or brown during the wet late spring/early summer weather but other than that issue, the flowers were charming. She's a nice Austin for small spaces and pots. Oooo, pots! Maybe another suggestion for Fogrose/Diane and her large pots? My PJs were own-root, and my own-root Austins are always slow to start. Some Austins, like PJ, are slower than others although they're nothing like as slow as a tea rose in PDX.... Ingrid, where I've repeated info and chimed in with others, it's only to give you a larger sample of data. Hope I've helped.

Carol

Thank you kindly, Carol. You've strengthened my resolution to just wait this little lady out until she decides to perform. As long as there is no disease and no dieback, waiting is not a problem, and she did have a few pretty blooms this year and the last. The Austin that I had next to her, The Dark Lady, outperformed her in spades, except that she had the fatal flaw of having bright red blooms, a color I dislike above all others in roses. Apparently my alkaline soil was to blame. I really like the color of PJ, and she's here to stay.

Ingrid

I'm so glad. Keep us updated on her progress, and don't hesitate to post some of those gorgeous photos that you do so well!

Carol

I know my last post on this same topic, different thread, was also sour, but I feel strongly enough about this that I shall endure the strong disapproval from many on this forum that I do highly respect, to give a contrary and unpopular opinion.

Ingrid - I'm baffled to see all the support you get for your flippancy with roses. I finally find it tiring and sad. It seems one of your most common posting topics - roses you are disappointed with for one reason or another, and visits here to get support from the forum for your disposing of them.

One of my greatest joys is trying to figure out ways to make roses that are not thriving, thrive again. And strangely, with most I have been successful. New places in the garden, different treatment. Waiting more than one or two years for a rose to mature enough to have the strength and foundation to be fabulous.

Reds are my very favorite, and clearly we all have our likes and dislikes, but I tire of reading how awful reds are, and it's ridiculous to feel bad for a plant, but I still feel sad for your pour Dark Lady.

There are so many posters here that struggle to purchase a single rose from a box store, because still for many, people are struggling in this economy. I was one of those people when I started gardening and started on this forum. I think having it be such a financial struggle to add roses to my garden gave me extra incentive to try to make them survive. And the joy they all gave me, sometimes not until 3 or 4 years now after planting, has been so worth the effort.

It's nice you have the means to purchase and toss at will. Perhaps (in reading the responses, maybe even likely) I am alone in my thoughts, and others enjoy reading about all of the roses you have tossed over the years.

Sure, everyone (well, most everyone) has roses that don't perform, that get SP'd. Some do it easily. Some feel some guilt over it. Many approve of removing non-performers - and why not? We all should be happy in our gardens. Over 4 years I too have SP'd 3 roses, and indeed, I did feel better as those three were really duds. And perhaps to that point, I am a hypocrite.

I just wanted to give you an alternate view to think about. And this thread looks like it may have gone in a positive direction - Pretty Jessica is spared for a while. But perhaps the next thread you post about a disappointing rose that you are about to axe, you'll think about the many people who would love so much to have that rose, and are saving their dollars to go back to Home Depot to buy that $7 rose they've been dreaming over the past few weeks.

Or perhaps I'm just an ignorant (*$&%@, not worth the time to read.

harmony, I respect your opinion and you have every right to express it. There are a few roses that I wish I had thought to replant in a better spot rather than to dispose of them, one of them being Austin's Janet, which I still miss. Quite a few of the roses I passed on to a friend of very limited financial circumstances, and some to a fellow old rose lover. Quite a few of them I did dispose of. One rationale for doing this more easily than you might approve of is that I was supplying some struggling old rose nurseries who needed all the business they could get.

In the beginning, and indeed not until fairly recently, I wasn't aware of exactly how much mulch the roses needed here to survive. The bulk of my roses are planted around the periphery of a very large cement parking pad, and this is backed by a mostly bare hill with heat-reflecting huge boulders. In the six months of summer it's like an oven there. In my ignorance when I first moved here I wasn't aware of this and planted hybrid musks which couldn't tolerate these conditions at all, and purple and lavender roses that I loved which fried within an hour or two of their blooms opening. Other roses like Lady Hillingdon, Enchantress and others like Monsieur and Clementina Carbonieri did the same.

I deeply apologize for my thoughtlessness in not considering the struggle many are having financially, where buying even a few roses is an effort. For that reason alone I will not mention again a rose that I've discarded, and fortunately I feel I'm finally at a point where what's left is reasonably happy here, and that the roses that didn't do well in spite of endless, expensive and environmentally unsound watering are gone. I also won't mention my dislike of bright red roses (although I do appreciate very much the purply-red ones) since that seems grating.

Thank you, harmony, for expressing what you feel, because it's shown me how I must come across to many people, and it's not all that pretty a picture. This will help me in future posts to be more aware, and I appreciate that.

Ingrid

Harmony and Ingrid, I appreciate your thoughts on your roses. I'm happy to share your world of roses, struggles and triumphs. Sometimes the struggles are with health, sometimes with money, sometimes with the environment. I've struggled in all three areas; right now my struggles are physical, and sometimes I don't know how I'll cope, but I keep plugging away. I wish success and relief to both of you of whatever kind you need. Ingrid, your experience with Pretty Jessica sounds like mine with Sharifa Asma. I've been ready to SP my two, but I'm going to up the TLC another year and see what happens. Good luck to all of us and keep the advice and the tales of your experiences coming! Lou

Supporting the nurseries is so helpful to all of us! So true. Just make sure to give the roses you dislike to someone, imho :) Put an ad on Craigslist if you don't know anyone who wants them. Folks with budget issues (like me) scope out Craigslist for plants and garden hardscaping like bricks, etc.

That's not to say that I've been bothered at all about your posts! Nope, I haven't noticed any problem there :)

I can always "argue both sides of the coin" so I hope my comments do not hurt anyone's feelings, that is certainly not my intent.

I can totally relate to how freeing the experience of removing plants that just do not work for one person can be. In times of stress, looking at those sad sacks in the garden just add to the depression on the current state of life. Cleaning it out and clearing out what holds one back can be a great relief. I have filled many a trash can doing just that!

On the other hand, as I read posts of people pulling out plants that are on my wish list, is hard. I have a shoe string budget to work with and a giant yard and a run down house so the wish list is long and it is a treat to buy something off my wish list. And an even bigger thrill to find someone giving away something I need or long for.

And last, I think of people working with historical societies that rely on donations and wonder if the trash of one person would be a treasure for another group.

While it is a good cause to support the small nurseries, I can also see the problems in suggesting a plant list to a historical society to use around a historic building with high usage and knowing the plant will be a tiny band in a 4" pot smaller than the average weed on the property.

I guess there is no perfect solution.

Rose gardens are created and tended by rose gardeners, and we the rose gardeners live in the middle of and work through challenges of every nature while struggling to build and sustain our patches of green earth which in turn rejuvenate and sustain us in all that we do. It seems that many of us have recently lost, are losing, or are working to heal loved ones. The loss of those I love is the one event to which I can never completely adjust. Once again, Ingrid, you and your brother are in my thoughts, and once again, I appreciate the way you consistently compliment and celebrate the rose victory posts of other members.

Many of us garden on a frayed shoestring. My husband is self-employed and working twice as hard for about half his previous business. My school is closing in a week and my job is departing with it. Seven years ago, I spent $30,000 on a M.A.T. so I could teach.

Some of us have large lots on which to garden, but those lots have sandy rocky soil. Some of us, correct me if I'm wrong Campanula, live in horse trailers and garden in forests. Fogrose is gardening on top of gnarly tree roots, bless her heart! I have great soil and a rich climate around the soil, but I garden in a microscopic yard. My yard surrounds a fixer upper 1912 cottage--the only home in the neighborhood that I could afford, but with some paint, gingerbread details, and a garden embracing it, my fixer is looking up!

Like you, Harmony P, I almost never toss out a rose. I even pot up volunteers and Dr. Huey! My husband and I adopted our daughter a couple of years ago. We are later-in-life parents who now have one income. I see a bumpy adventure on my horizon! If I had a dime to spare, I'd start a retirement account. I hear that it's a good idea to have one of those....

One of the reasons I finally joined this forum after years of spectating is that I appreciate the way it functions as a diverse community, not unlike the larger world around it. When members get jostled, they reflect, they respond, they share, they shake things up, and they return to share some more.

Because this is a rose forum, one of the ways members share is they offer rose starts. Even though he's never met me, Paul very kindly offered to share a La Ville de Bruxelles start. Nastarana immediately took up my cause to help me locate a "real" Armide. Jeri always has a helpful--even brilliant--suggestion to offer regarding plant ID or disease. Strawberry Hill and Kim not only didn't dismiss my newbie posts regarding soil pH and root growth, Strawberry read my posts 3 times and Kim gave me a free tutorial. And they all offered what they have to give in the middle of the rush of daily life. Thank you all.

Harmony P, I appreciate your reminder that in so many ways, our society is neither just nor fair. My students have spent much of their lives homeless or nearly so which is why our school created a community garden for them and their families. I, of course, donated roses. $-wise, in my own household, I'm right there with you. Sometimes it feels like I'm only slightly more secure than my students.

I may live across the continent, but if you want a rose-- Harmony P or anyone else on the forum--and I have it and can figure out how to root it, you are so welcome to whatever is in my garden!

Carol

Carol, your post almost brought me to tears. I'm sorry that you're going through such a tough time, as obviously many others on and off the forum are too.

Right now I feel like an unworthy person for not having given all my roses to someone else, never mind the fact that some of them were nothing more than a bundle of sticks or diseased when I got rid of them. Also, I live at the back of beyond and getting these roses to someone else would be a challenge, especially since I have fibromyalgia and the energy of a newborn kitten a great deal of the time.

This forum was a place to relieve stress and share my joy of roses. Right now it feels like something different and sad, and it will take me a little time to find the courage to post again.

Ingrid

I sure hope you do not stop posting, I always enjoy your posts and photos.

Even when I want to go rose rustling in your green waste...hehehehe

Ingrid

Oh, heck and darnation! I am so sorry. I did not mean to make you sad. Please forgive my awkward post. My words came out all wrong.

You are such caring and courageous person. I have the deepest respect for you and I admire your ability to make change...whether you cast off the chains of diseased waterhog roses or dip your hands in the soil to find peace.

I've been reading about all the various members' challenges and the references to other gardeners' challenges (families, economics, relocations) and I was struck by them. I foisted way too much info on you and everyone else, way more than I would have if I weren't in such a philosophical mood of late.

The last line of my post was poorly phrased. It was NOT in any way aimed at you, Ingrid. I offered rose starts because Harmony P reminded me that I might have (healthy) roses that others would enjoy. I do tend to collect any rose I can get my hands on but, for the record, I only foist my diseased plants on my worst enemies. (Not really but I consider the possibility.) If the plants are beyond help, and some are, they are yard debris. If I can salvage a plant but know it is dying in my garden, I try to post it on Craigslist and dump it by the curb. BUT I live in the heart of the city where people scour free boxes and curbside giveaways, and I do not have fibromyalgia.

My words had the opposite effect of what I intended, Ingrid. I heard what Harmony P was saying about economic inequities; I have worked in the heart of that place for a long, long time. But life is broad; it encompasses so many beautiful things, too--all the wonderfulness that is your garden--the garden that you nurture and photograph and share in spite of all your challenges. You give so much all the time, through your garden and through your words and images. If my words expressed any other sentiment, then I am a double doofus.

Just for the record, my sister and I are taking this opportunity to try our hands at some creative work we've wanted to attempt. Life is about reinvention. You have reinvented your garden. I am in the process of doing the same (and tossing a couple of roses out on the curb and maybe one in the debris can) because somehow organizing one's garden is connected to organizing all the other pieces of life.

Once again, I am so very, very sorry my post caused you grief. The last thing I wanted to do. I think you're wonderful!

Trying to figure out how to take my garden clog out of my mouth....

Carol

This post was edited by PortlandMysteryRose on Wed, Jun 5, 13 at 3:17

PRETTY JESSICA is one of those roses that does better in the Eastern United States. Yes she takes a while to get going own root and the foliage is still black spot prone but the plant stays petite, reblooms well, has nearly thornless canes and the drop dead gorgeous blooms smell divine.

COMTE DE CHAMBORD would be a better alternative for all you California dreamers.

Now, Patrick, what am I supposed to do. Dead center in the country I'm neither east nor west.

Or do you mean I should buy both? : )

Kate

Carol, you must be an amazing person.

Dear Carol, thank you for both of your wonderful posts. I find it heart-breaking that someone of your caliber should lose her job as a teacher. What you've tried to do for those kids is so completely right and wonderful, and losing you as a teacher is a tragedy for these children who see so much ugliness, and whom you've given a glimpse of the possibilities of beauty and goodness, not only through what you've tried to do but because of who you are. Let's forget this little incident, except insofar as through what you've shared I've been given the opportunity to know and appreciate you more. I'm honored and so happy that my garden has given something of value to these kids who so desperately need to know there is something better outside of the confines of their pretty bleak lives. Sometimes that knowledge can have an impact, and if it affects even one child positively, my garden and I will be so happy.

Ingrid

Ingrid, I'm am so very relieved to read your reply. Thank you. A great lesson for me.

Thank you for your kindness, Floridarosez9.

Carol

Kate,

Of course that is the solution! Buy Both!

hehe I think that is what I would do.

Ingrid, you know I've followed your garden from its tiny beginnings and have enjoyed the journey with you. Your pictures have inspired me. We all do what we have to do to get on in this world. Don't second guess yourself.

Harmony, I also garden on a budget, mainly because most of my disposable income goes to support my small herd of horses, many of which are elderly and I could never part with (my old campaign horses from my distance riding days), so I also understand what you're saying. I don't feel I can justify the shipping costs to Florida for many of the roses I lust for, so I just do without if I can't find them at nurseries on the east coast. But I don't begrudge anyone the roses they can afford to purchase or think it's my concern what they do with them after.

Ingrid, I want to say thank you for your advice several days ago on a separate thread. I'm a new gardener, and you were so thoughtful and helpful, like many others (including Carol). Just to offer a different perspective, I like this forum particularly because of all the differing opinions that harmoniously exist together. I read your posts with pleasure and enjoy the humor with which you express your pleasure and displeasure in your garden. If your posts were malicious or mean-spirited, then I might think criticism was called for. However, disliking red roses does no harm to anyone, and I find it quirky and funny. If we all censored ourselves all the time so as not to hurt others' feelings in however trivial a manner, no one would say anything at all. Forgive me for reviving the serious tone this post adopted at some point, but I felt compelled to give my humble opinion. I have a friend who always amazes me with her ability to express what I know to be a negative opinion about something in the most positive, non-hurtful, and usually funny way. I often wish more people expressed themselves this way, myself included. Please don't stop posting, and please continue to post as your unique and endearing self! That said, Pretty Jessica sounds like the perfect candidate for my tiny garden. Perhaps the upside to all this is that a rose trade recycling program can be started! One man's trash is another man's treasure.

All I want to say without being critical of anyone is how much I enjoy your posts Ingrid. What would this forum be without people like you?

floridarose, I could hug you, not only for what you said in regard to me, but because you are taking care of your old horses, at what I know must be considerable cost, rather than granting yourself some of the small luxuries of life and being able to save what you spend on them for your own future. That is true love and sacrifice, and I can't tell you how much I honor that. Responsibility for living creatures whose lives are in our hands is a sacred trust, but there are many who would not do what you've done.

mlle melanie, thank you so much for your lovely post. What you've said and how you've said it is having a very healing effect on me, and I appreciate so much your having taken the time to express your thoughts. I'm often afraid that I've been too outspoken, long-winded, talked too much and at boring length about MY garden, or otherwise annoyed people, and it's obvious that I have, but the one thing I would never want to do is be unkind. Also, I can truly say that I'm as deeply interested in others' gardens, their problems and their joys, and their pictures, as I am in my own. As you've mentioned, there are many differing viewpoints here, and I enjoy and respect all of them. Many of you show a nobility of character and courage during adversity that comes out in ways that have nothing to do with roses. I'm happy and honored to be a part of this wonderful group.

Ingrid

It's been a while since I popped in and what timing ... because I spotted this thread about PJ. I don't have anything to add; everyone's covered everything very well already. In addition to sharing a love of old roses, many of you often show some of your personality and this thread is no exception. I think you guys are a very special group and I enjoy the thoughts you share here very much. And I suppose that's what keeps me coming back to check up on you from time to time. It's great to see so many of you "long-timers" are still here! I hope you had a great weekend, I did!

Randy

Randy, I wish you'd drop by more often. I really miss your posts a lot, and I'm sure many others do too. Isn't there any way we can coax you back?

Ingrid

Hi, Ingrid. I promise, I'll keep checking in from time to time.

Randy

Yes, Randy, we do miss you. You used to post a lot back when I only lurked here. I've also wndered about mikerivers, I haven't seen him post in awhile.