Forgive you because you don't understand why people are greatly interested in a certain tree? O.K., forgiven. However, just because you don't understand the interest doesn't mean such interest is unreasonable -- you simply don't understand. No matter, I'm aware of no vote on the floor, so by all means, plant your oaks and ignore the elm. Problem solved, no?

This book cannot but help solve your problem: "Republic of Shade: New England and the American Elm" (Amazon.com link below). A wonderful read, but beware, you may find yourself looking for a place to plant a young, non-hybrid, highly DED resistant, classic Princeton American elm.

Here is a link that might be useful: Republic of Shade: New England and the American Elm

thanks for the two replies..

but you really didnt answer the question ...

WHY ARE YOU ATTACHED TO THEM ....

is it a WHEN I WAS A KID THING???

is it a GRANDPA HAD A GLORIOUS LINE OF THEM ON THE OLD HOMESTEAD ...

is it a IF ANYONE CAN BEAT THE ODDS ITS GOING TO BE ME ...

etc ...

i have 5 acres... with plenty of room for more trees ... but with all the problems with elms.. i just never figured i would invest money in something that is borderline going to survive ... soooo .. again.. i ask ... explain the attachment to me ...

back 8 years ago .. i planted 3 autumn purple ash ... in the interim.. emerald ash borer came along... i am watching these trees die one by one.. and i am not going to pay money for injections .... ash is a glorious tree... or were around here ... why would i ever want to plant another... even if someone told me it is borer resistant ... with so many other choices in the world of trees ...

if someone tells me.. they have designed a new wall which you can beat your head against, without injury .... do i go beat my head against the wall .... or do i wonder who is going to believe this guys opinion and invest in building the wall ... why plant another elm???

ken

You really didn't hear the answer: READ THE BOOK AND YOU'LL KNOW WHY. Also, search this forum, as many people here have provided as many answers to your question. For me, it's a culmination of the history, the species, personal connect similarly shared by countless others, etc. -- it's all there in the book and here in the forum. With all this in mind, add to the equation our justified true belief that these trees do not face a "borderline" chance of surviving based on the research and observation of those intricately and generally involved/interested, from private and public research institutions to the USDA, etc. (there really is quite a significant amount of useful information available if you seriously researched the topic).

For some insight into my perspective, based on my research, I have come to the conclusion that American Chestnut is a risky proposition. I love this species for the same reasons given the Elm above. Based on the same decision making process I employ, howver, I do not feel that Ulmus americana is anywhere near as risky a surviving proposition. Be that as it may, there is quite a significant movement of folks planting original American Chestnut as well as the blight-resistant strains being developed, all for the same reasonable reasons as the Elm. If the USDA, for instance, could give the original American Chestnut the same high percentage of blight resistance that it gave the Princeton American Elm for DED resistance, I would plant the Chestnut on my property. When the blight resistant species being developed for release here in New York in the next few years is deemed ready, I will consider it and plant it for the same reasons.

No one is going to guarantee you that any tree you plant is going to thrive and survive. You obviously have intractible doubts about the elm, so, don't plant it. Others don't and they do. I'ts really that simple.

looking for the "new savior" might have something to do with correcting a mistake of (unintentionally) introducing a disease that has decimated native populations of stately trees. otherwise, we are not responsible for our actions and everything is dispensable, going the way of isolated populations maintained in a "zoo" environment.
i don't know that elms are my favorite trees but i have seen (pictures of) beautiful specimens and seems like a sad thing to lose them all when there is a possibility of stopping the spread of the disease. extinction is forever(for now, anyway).
also, your last example of "why the attachment" is a typical line of thinking for many gardeners/plant enthusiasts - "if anyone can grow a _____ tree in ______, it's gonna be me". we challenge ourselves to do difficult things.

Well, it is unreasonable in that it is an emotional attachment. I grew up in a yard with an almost complete coverage provided by the 5 large elms (4 of them are still there). The street was lined with elms, many of which are still there. This gives elms a great sentimental value to me.

Another poster mentioned American Chestnut. I realize many people have the same kind of attachment to this tree, but it has played no part in my life, and I never considered planting one.

With 5 acres to manage, I understand you don't want to bother with a tree that will take above average effort to maintain. I feel the same way about my herb/vegetable/fruit /flower garden. I could not possibly fit all the plants I am intersted in, so I'm not going to bother babying plants that are problematic. I made one raised rock garden for a few plants that need really good drainage. My lot is less than half an acre, so I only have room for a few large trees, and I've always felt I wanted one or two elms, again, for sentimental reasons. While I complain at what a pain it has been to get my two Valley Forge elms to grow straight, it's really only a few hours of work per year at most, so I can do that.

Humanity, bit by bit, is destroying a stunning number of trees species via introduced pests and diseases. Dutch Elm Disease, Chestnut Blight, Emerald Ash Borer, Hemlock Wooly Adelgid, Sudden Oak Death, Oak Decline, Beech Bark Disease, the various beetles destroying the pine forests out west, etc.

If we fail in our efforts to restore lost species by creating versions that are resistant to the messes we've created, we will eventually be left with a huge number of dead trees, woodlands stripped of a vast amount of native species - which will be, in turn, replaced with choking, mono-culture invasive species, and our choices for trees to plant will consist of nothing but ragged invasives.

i dont have a problem with the research and restoration ....

i am more interested in why someone on a small suburban lot would plant only this tree ...

i think.. the biggest problem with the elm ... was the over-planting of one species in the millions.. as suburbia crept across the land .... then along comes one pest and wipes them all out .... the lack of diversity through man-made plantings ... destroyed the elm ...

its great they are doing the research. and that some are willing to plant them ... good luck on all that ..

ken

Alexander3, not all "emotional attachments" are unreasonable (I challenge you to state that to your significant other without getting rapped upside the head) and not all "attachments" to the elm are emotional.

Ken, you are simply misinformed and have declared any interest in elms to be "unreasonable" based on complete ignorance of the subject. Contrary to your absolute statements above, elms were not "all" wiped out and the elm is not "destroyed." Again, a bit of research on your own part would quickly dispel these fallacies.

I planted my elm on a small suburban lot because, based on my subjective interest and my objective research of the species, my Princeton American Elm stands as good a chance as any other tree to flourish over a long period of time. The only reason I made the effort of posting to your thread was because I thought your query was genuine and not rhetorical. It seems I was mistaken. No matter, I don't feel my efforts wasted if my comments join with collective others that help dispel ignorant myths and resultantly "unreasonable" bias against the American elm. Good luck indeed to all who have and continue to successfully plant and enjoy this rewarding species, here in the US and increasingly now abroad.

I have an unexplainable emotional attachment to all the native trees of my country. They remind me of how earlier dwellers of my country, of whatever ethnic identity, used them in times when there were only wild things to eat and build with. So they tie me to my history, and I think that's worth something. In the case of American elm, its symmetry and beauty are unique; it's not just another splash of green on the landscape. It defines its landscape. I can remember when the streets of small New England and other northeastern towns and the residential neighborhoods of cities were lined with magnificently arching elms. Even a dingy quarter had a claim to beauty that clumsier cottonwoods and oaks do not impart. When you bring back a native tree that has been almost wiped out, you honor those tree-appreciators who came before you.
Maybe you need to chew some yellow birch twigs, or sniff crushed sassafras leaves or bark, or sniff the catpiss out of crushed white spruce foliage, or sniff the citrus of white fir, or.....you get the picture, don't you?

Why have an attachment to anything...why have 5 acres and cultivate plants...most people don't do that...

dude, the fact is that many people(including presumably all of us) do place great importance in trees and plants and nature in general...the American Elm is without question one of the most important trees in american history...when it gets wiped out, you bet people will be standing in line to plant the "savior" of the species...its what people who love plant tend to do...

>Alexander3, not all "emotional attachments" are unreasonable (I challenge you >to state that to your significant other without getting rapped upside the head) >and not all "attachments" to the elm are emotional.

You're right, of course. I should have been more clear that I was speaking for myself, explaining my attachment.

As far as "unreasonable" goes, I was thinking along the lines that the choice to plant an American elm is not some inevitable conclusion reached solely through logic..ie, not based on reason. No doubt the word carries more meaning than that, based on the context.

I would argue that in the large majority of cases, an American elm is not clearly the hands down best choice. Maybe its as good as any other, but the lengths to which people go to plant one (WRT cost, convenience) are not generally merited by objective criteria.

Alex

This gets personal so fast. So, Ken, I interpreted your question as being truly a question, not a hidden criticism. And people answered it "home" "grandpa" "creates/re-creates a sense of place" . If elms do not have a history with you that re-creates 'a feeling' or an image, then of course, why plant not-so-low-maintenance tree.

Others have answered. Now,I'd love to hear what things/plant you plant from love, or history, attachment, or your idea of beauty. I feel like I must add that your answers to many questions are quick, succinct, and on target. So taking care of 5 acres is more than a hobby, it is an act of love. Whydo you do it?

Actually, if an American elm clone WAS truly resistant to DED, it would be the preemminent "low maintenance" tree.

My attachment to Am. elm is aesthetic in nature. No other tree does quite what it did/still does here and there. For me, it is a sad thought that our urban forests have probably seen their best days back when this tree was everywhere. And even sadder, missing them in forest settings, especially in the Fall when they were great big golden mushrooms.

+oM

According to the Princeton Nurseries* web site

The Princeton Elm was selected by William Flemer Jr. in 1922

*Also soon to be extinct

I went on a group outing during the January thaw. We admired a Mourning Cloak basking in the sun. This is one of only a handful of butterflies that overwinter as adults in my area. MC, Question Mark and Angelwing all require elm as larval host, no elm = no butterfly.
I am aware of 5 species of Elm in Temperate N.A., there may be more. The OP doesn't specify it but I'll assume he is talking about U. americana. Research and release of U. americana selections is one of the more positive things that has come out of the USDA. I think that the promotion of 'Princeton' is also positive. 'Liberty' which is distributed from the place in NH not so much.
American Elm has dominated rich bottomlands and floodplains of N.A. for millennia. Those of us who admire and appreciate trees don't need to somehow justify it. My question would be, is the OP's 5 acres worthy of an American Elm?
Sam

Ken is not trying to start to fight. It's a legit question. I bought four Princetons this spring ...but only because I have 32 acres.

But still... why?

I've never seen one, just heard they were magnificant and because I like variety. A false sense of nostalgia for something I've never known.

Terry

In Minneapolis/St. Paul there are still a lot of very old elms that survived the initial DED outbreak. (I think cold winters kept the beetle in check a bit).

Over the last several years DED is back and many huge old trees are in decline and being removed. It is sad to see them go, they fit in well with the old houses. But I take of a garden planted below one and nothing will grow, the roots are so competitive, much worse then any maple I work around. Plus the seeds are a HUGE mess in early summer and the fall color just isn't that great.

Oaks don't really seem to be the answer for urban sites, the way elms were. Too fussy about soil compaction and such. My current favorite large shade tree is the Kentucky Coffee Tree. So far it seems not to have a bunch of diseases to worry about, and it's easy to grow thing below it.

Ted

This gets personal so fast. So, Ken, I interpreted your question as being truly a question, not a hidden criticism.

BINGO IDA.. THANKS...

WAY TO PERSONAL ... AND IT REALLY ANSWERS THE QUESTION.. doesnt it ...

its something in the genetic makeup of the person who plants it ..... something way deep inside ... and i can appreciate that ....

the economy in MI is carp .... anyone have a spare .. and want to sponsor it in my garden ... i will plant one.. just to appreciate the buzz .... for lack of a better term ...

ken

PS: i will even put your name on the tag/label/marker/database .... back to the red wings decimating that Colorado team .... any plant endemic to CO? .. but that sounds like begging.. never mind ...

I ran a kennel in Selkirk, Manitoba that had the runs settled under huge elms dating back to the year dot.
DED hit while I was workign there, and they all had to come down.

Oaks ahve their points, but they are not fast growers.
A street lined with 60-75 foot high elms is something to see.

I would consider some of the maples as suitable replacements. If I can convince Jeffries to sell me liners, I'm going to try to start a small sugar bush here in Alberta, now that Jeffries has a prairie hardy one.

Vancouver found to their sorrow that planting a lot of one
thing is a mistake, especially if it is cloned, and not grown from seed. So now they try to plant only a few blocks of a given street tree, and try to make sure that they use enough different kinds that there are buffer zones.

So too on my tree farm, I put a block of pine, a block of spruce, a block of something else. A bug that has to look for the next victim is a bug that is more likely to be chickadee lunch.

Find a DED elm. Plant 1 or 2. Maybe plant another kind of elm. Plant several oaks of different kinds, a weeping willow, and a clump of paper birch. Diversity in trees is every bit as important as diversity in your stock portfolio

Personal, Ken? How dare you ask us rank sentimentalists for the reasons for our unreasonable attachment.

I jest, of course.

Nah, great tree. I live in a town where DED has not yet reached... yes imagine that, a real backwater...

And it is by far the most magnificent large tree planted. It gets big, grows fast, and puts up with abuse... and its long lived and has great form. How many other trees can you think of that meet that criteria? Biggest trees in town and the best looking.

Maybe childhood. I grew up w/a 75' x 70' one in the yard. No other tree I know of makes such an large, impressive "umbrella" that can shade a whole house. The "edge" of the umbrella dipped down to eye-level. Storms/winds/ice that would tear up many other species didn't bother it -- the wood will not split.

If new cultivars resist the disease, why not plant it? I've planted other trees that will take over that space if the elm fails. I also have some of OIKOS's hybrid Amer chestnut saplings, tho well away from the house.

I'm living in a house I'll probably sell in about a decade. Guess I plant trees for entertainment or the artistic value. Kinda figured I'd drive by alot to see what the next owners do.

I might plant trees to give something to the next generation. If I was into planting elms it might be to "show them how things used to be" almost like a plitical statement. I generally avoid the bradford pear rush my neighbors love as a kind of statement I guess.

People always want something rare, unusual or disappearing... I would think a collector would understand.

Anybody have any nice pics of Elms so people can understand what was so great about the Elms?

{{gwi:355361}}

Emotion isn't reasonable and hobbies aren't reasonable. Come to think of it, most human behavior isn't reasonable.

People will plant trees they like.

The American elms I've seen have tended to have excellent bright golden fall color. That, coupled with their shape and stature, created an effect sadly missing from our forests today.

One of the guys I work with, who's been there even longer than me, has stated several times words to the effect that "we didn't lose anything with the demise of all the elms". He then always relates storm-damage episodes wherin he was involved with picking these huge trees off peoples roofs and so on. Meanwhile, I'm thinking, we've lost a key species from all our woodlands, fence rows, etc. HOW can that not be considered a huge loss?!?

But he's kind of a weird guy, capable of making very narrow judgements on a wide variety of topics. ;^(

+oM

The variety of trees that we can grow that doesn't have problems is getting slim.

*Elms get DED
*Ash has EAB
*Maples had the Asian longhorned beetle and they also get verticilium wilt
*Oaks can get bacterial leaf scorch, SOD, and gypsy moths.
*Honeylocust have outbreaks of Mimosa worm

The list can get longer.

Very true, ATH! I could add quite a few more, including more problems with the species you already mentioned. But your point is well taken.

+oM