Whitecat, I have to work. If I do not answer your questions immediately, I will get back to you soon  usually within a week. To the best of my knowledge, the cyms in this thread are all goeringii types. However, the white one (second, you first choice) and the third one are not really goeringii. I heard biologists are giving new Latin name for the second one. It is of the same type as "Chun Lei". If you look closely, the bases of the two down-facing petals are "connected". Their market name is "joint-petal" cym which suggests the unity of love and/or friendship. You show great insight by choosing the second one. It is a new cultivar. The flowers appear to be "powder white". This is never achieved before. There are similar ancient cultivars Xue Su "snow pure" which I will post pictures when I have time. By the way, the first is goeringii huan qiu he ding "global lotus vase". The last picture which is also in package is the famous long zi "dragonÂs marking". Both are very popular ancient cultivars. Rita has cym ensifolium Kuan Yin Su Xin "White Goddess of Mercy". It is a wonderfully fragrant type. I have picture of another "Su Xin" in the other thread. "Su Xin" means "pure heart/white". These less-colorful ensifoliums are usually fragrant. I am not sure why she has not joined our discussion. Your estimation of their size is correct. These stay small which I like very much.

Thanks Carmie2, I have it bookmarked on my computer. Someone asked me about printing some of those off here awhile back and I couldn't find my link for them. That's because I'm so darn bad at the computer it's unreal. (not funny- just a fact). Hopefully the person will read this posting and be able to use some of them. If I had a color printer I'd make me some of them. (grin) I did make some gift tags using them at my sisters house. You can make your own stationary too on that site and matching envelopes. It's a fun thing to do if you have kids to help make the things. They just love doing little things like that. Grin, oh did I forget to mention some of us older folks enjoy making pretty things too. I guess we could make those during the winter months when it's too bad to work outside. Thanks again, Marian

I hate to see anything researched to the point they can change it from its original configuration into who knows what and the bottom line is, you guessed it, more money for big corporations. These big corporations would screw up a sand box if it helped their bottom line. Dave

That is an interesting observation. Something similar yet different that may just apply to seedlings in general? I did two runs of bell peppers from seed as the first died of neglect. In the meantime I filled Mom's garden with nursery stock peppers likely a month older. Detirmined to try some of the mixed bag seedlings I potted them in large terra cotta colored plastic pots and placed them on a concrete pad at the end of the veggie garden. While the older plants are carrying larger fruit the potted plants clearly larger and stronger (might pot them all next year, more room for tomatos). Guess it's a combination of the heat on the concrete and the pots? Perhaps even something to the potting soil? I can't be sure but I do recall seeing some awesome potted veggie trellis plants at a nursery that were geared for apt. dwellers/ patio gardners. Certainly going to keep an eye on progress and production, could be helpful for bare root starts? Wes