Simplicity, why so expensive?

colt357_2004

17 years ago

Ok, I don't want to make you brand sensitive guys mad. This is an honest question. I did some research on power equipment. I found a site I will post below. Seems there are eight engine mfgs and over 50 power equipment companies that use them. Most of them also make mowers.

Maybe it's the other components, transmitions, wheels axles, electronics, etc. They are beautiful tractors! I would love to have one, I just dont understand how thier entry level tractor, can start at more than a JD mid level, or Craftsman high end model.

Maybe it's workmanship, maybe it's just , if we price these really high, people will think there good. I don't know.

So you simplicity owners, don't get mad, just explain it to me, like you were selling me one.

http://smallengineadvisor.com/links.htm

copy and paste this link guys, lots of info there,

Featured Answer

theodocius

16 years ago

"Why so expensive?" My answer: Everytime I use it, it makes me grin. Previous Snapper and Craftsman mowers fell short in that department. ;~)

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Comments (41)

ervie
17 years ago
Colt357,
Years ago there were two kinds of tractors. The one kind
was inexpensive, and found at Sears. The other kind was a
Toro, Deere, Cub Cadet, Simplicity or Bolens, much more expensive, but designed and then redesigned to obtain very smooth operation and maximum durabilty. The difference between
the two types was apparent after a few minutes at the wheel.

Now the names Toro, Deere, Bolens and Cub Cadet appear on cheap lines of tractors. They horned in on Sears' end of the
market. But not Simplicity.
eal51
17 years ago
Colt357 - I'm a very happy Simplicity owner and your research and information is a little off, if not totally incomplete. You are not compairing apples to apples.

The Simplicity entry level tractor is the Regent - base price $2,099.00. That's with an 18 hp engine and a 38" deck.

Mid level JD is the X300 - base price $2,799.00. Even the JD 190C is $2,999.00. The least expensive JD 102 is $1,399.00 - box store model.

The Sears high end is $2,799.99. That's their garden tractor.

So Simplicity's entry level is not more expensive than a mid level JD or the high end Sears!

Simplicity price ranges:
Regent; $2,099.00 to $3,000.00
Broadmoor; $3,850.00 to $4,495.00
Conquest; $4,850.00 to $5,550.00
Presitge; $6,195.00 to $6,795.00
Legacy XL; $8,650.00 to $11,450.00.

You did not mention if you have visited the John Deere site or the Simplicity site. On each site you will find detailed information on their entire line of lawn and garden tractors. There are differences in the model offerings. Make sure you are compairing apples to apples.

I was close to buying a new JD X500 or an 05 GT245 when I found a Simplicity dealer. I purchased as Simplicity Conquest, 21 hp B & S engine with a 44" cut, for $4,500.00 out the door. I saved over $1,500.00 over the JD models and got traction control and a differential lock in the deal (standard on the Conquest - not available on the JD'sat this level).

Simplicity is priced very competively to all other top line brands.

Continue to read past posts on this site. You will find that the information you are missing is already here.

Enjoy the journey.

eal51 in western CT
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daddo
17 years ago
I don't see why the sears tractors are so talked about as they seem no different than a murray, mtd, or the other low enders. Comparing JD's, simplicity, kubota and such is more on an equal level.
rustyj14
17 years ago
I have a simplicity tractor that came to me as a gift! Well, the owners kid had drained the oil out, and it blew the engine. they didn't want to install a new Kohler engibne, so they bought another tractor, and gave me the old one!
Here are the reasons folks like Simplicity.
A good engine in it. a strong frame, compared to Sears, or the big box store types. Everything seems to be heavy duty. I used it last week to mow my lawn and it does a fine job. And, they didn't cheapen the product to try to keep up! And, a dealer base that can supply almost anything you need!
Rustyj
doopstr
17 years ago
As others have stated, if you compare feature to feature and construction methods used, you will find that the Simplicity is priced pretty competitive to comparable models from other brands.

For example, the bottom of the line Regent (which I bought this year), offers an electric PTO at MSRP of $2099. To get that from a Deere you need to get a 145 @$2299. The Regent also has a larger fuel tank than the 145.

So you need to figure out what features are important to you. Perhaps a Vtwin is more important to you than electric PTO.

As others have mentioned on this forum, buy whatever puts the biggest smile on your face for the money you are willing to spend. Don't buy something that is overkill for the job needed unless you have money to burn.
jerry_nj
17 years ago
Good summary information on Simplicty, thanks. I am a Craftsman owner and have an older GT6000, and can say for light ground engagement and mowing (I paid $2K in 1993, prices have gone down for a 6 speed manual)the Craftsman has served well. That said, I've lamented that Craftsman doesn't make a mode for a few hundred more with a locking differential, or better an autolocking with disablement. I hadn't looked at the Simplicity Conquest, maybe I should. I too was under the impression, based on a neighbor's Simplicity (don't know the model) that cost over $3K that didn't offer any advantage I could see. P.S. I don't like the popular striping that the Simplicity floating deck can give. So that isn't a selling point to me.
eal51
17 years ago
When I purchased my Conquest this spring, striping was the least of my concerns. I needed a durable tractor with a stout frame, strong engine and tranny, the ability to tow, the ability to mow up and down hills safely and be able to plow or blow a 1200 foot driveway.

I've got a 10 guage steel frame, B & S 21 horse Vanguard engine, Tuff Torq tranny, traction control, locking differential and a very comfrotable tractor to drive and ride on!

Plus, I found an excellent dealer to work with. Since he also services Toro, Stihl, Shindiawa and other top line products, he gets all my business.

And all this was researched before I even set foot in a dealer's showroom. And that research included reading just about every post on this site.

So know exactly what your needs are going to be. Research the product your interested in. Talk to the dealers about your needs and see what they recommend. Test drive the tractors your interetsted in. It pays big dividends in the end.

Enjoy the journey.

eal51 in western CT
agrippa
17 years ago
I agree that you must know what your needs are before purchasing a tractor.

Tractors can be more than the sum of their parts. For instance--15 horsepower, gas, air-cooled, no hydro, basic tractor sounds like something entry level to be used to cut grass and which should be inexpensive. Of course, this is the description of my Classic style Toro Wheelhorse. It is built like a tank, has a gear transmission, and cuts and hauls like a machine with half again the horsepower. I also think the simplicity of the design equals fewer repair costs over time.

Did I pay more for it? Yes, but I believed (and still do) that it was the right machine for my jobs and that it would last me a very long time. The time factor has to be factored in when considering a higher quality tractor purchase. Given proper PM this type machine should last longer, all things considered. I don't think you can overempasize the stoutness of the frame when deciding what to buy either. It has been mentioned over and over that most engines today will outlast the frame over time. The frame and front axle on my tractor are robust to say the least.

It cost more going in but you won't be faced with tractor replacement every few year.

I'm not comparing it to Simplicity high end tractors or diesals, this particular tractor just met the majority of the requirements that I had.

Whatever you get, enjoy it to the full.
simpleman
17 years ago
Most, if not all of us, did alot of research before buying our respective tractors. If you haven't looked, it is a VERY competitive market.

As previously pointed out, there are entry level/low end tractors and some of the major players like JD want a slice of that pie. Hence they offered their 100 series to compete there. Other manufacturers like Kubota and Simplicity have decided not to enter this market. Not that this is a fair comparison, but you've probably noticed that Cadilac and Mercedes have chosen not to offer low end entry cars either.

eal51 has already shown that pricing for Simplicity is in line with other manufacturers. This is expected as the buyer (us) is well educated about what is available. I'm a case in point. Even though I chose to replace my Regent with a Braodmoor this year, I looked at other offerings as well. Came close to buying a JD but opted for the Simplicity instead. Can't speak for you but I'm known to be a tightwad.

Like any thing else you're going to buy, seeing them in person usually helps answer questions. There are obvious diffences between the different models and from entry level to high end, and in between as well.

Hoping you find a tractor to fill YOUR needs!
rcmoser
17 years ago
Same question can be asked between a BMW or Kia? I sure hope LT buying not snobbish. I want to think you get some better features and quality parts with all the money your spending. But, in that price range Kubota would be hard to look over. Which is really the machine people should be comparing, not the working men LT.
bogey123
17 years ago
For me it all comes down to the dealer and my Simplicity dealer is a Champ.
colt357_2004
Original Author
17 years ago
Ok, alot of info here, specialy from eal51. Some more homework would have helped, if I was going to purchase one, but I was more interested in owners opinions. Pricing was what I had seen on flyers and news paper adds.
I'm in wholesale distribution and we sell several brands of equipment, I won't go into what or who in this forum, it doesn't matter.
My point is, brand A and brand B both get thier components from, say....tridelta, or sunne, or some other manufacturer. They don't "build" anything, they put it together with parts made buy "others". Yet the price difference can be hundreds, or even thousands of dollars.
I just wondered if the same applied to lawn tractors.
Thanks for your replies, and not getting mad and insulting my heritage.....lol
aesanders
17 years ago
As pointed out prior by other posters, Simplicity really does not have a low end machine. The Regent is Simplicities low end machine, but it compares to most other makes mid range machines. Then once you get to the higher end Simplicities, only a couple brands have comparable models. For example the Legacy compares to John Deere's 700 or small subcut machines and Kubota's BX line. Most makes like sears, or most MTD brands have nothing even remoteley close to this class of machine.
aesanders
17 years ago
In response for your latest question, yes many components are purchased from other companies like motors and transmissions. The tractors themselves are made by most of the parent companies. Simplicity does manufacture the tractor. Same with John Deere. Same with MTD various lines etc. Then the tractor manufacturer will buy compent parts like transmissions and engines to put in the tractor. John Deere and Simplicity tend to use Tuff Torque trannsmissions. Deere uses mostly Kawasaki engines and Simplicity uses mostly Briggs engines.

Component parts have a broad range of features and quality which make up the price.

An example would be to Compare one machine with a 22hp Briggs versus another machine with a more expensive 18hp Briggs. The Vanguard 18hp will cost more than the larger but not as ruggedly built standard briggs motor.
nine7xbam
17 years ago
Something no one has mentioned is the $300 factory rebates for the Regent and the Broadmoor($600 for the Conquest) putting the lowest priced Regent in the box store price range at $1799 . Still with the lowest priced Broadmoor at $3850 before rebate , the 04 leftover I bought for $3050 last year seems like more of a bargain than ever !
eal51
17 years ago
When I purchased my Conquest this spring, the dealer took $500.00 off the price. I knew I had a good deal then and it still looks good.
HerringboneD28
17 years ago
Simplicity probably makes a fine tractor, but when I was shopping a few years ago the local dealer only had a couple Simplicity Express's on the floor. My impression was....."what's so great about these!"

They looked cheap and were certainly over priced. Apparently that was Simplicity's only attempt at marketing a low-end mower, huh?
bogey123
17 years ago
Simplicity is owned by B&S these days.
ervie
17 years ago
Colt,
You mentioned that tractor makers buy all the tractor's
components. They buy engines and transaxles, although Cub
builds their own transaxles once you go above the boxstore models.

They each make their own mower decks and chassis and they are quite ingenious. Let's take steering. Some new Deere owners have posted that their front wheels were mounted crooked and they've asked how to fix them, haha. Kingpin
inclination and toe-in are two automotive tricks Deere engineers use to give a sports car feel to their steering.
You may get straight up and down wheels that feel like a
soapbox on some entry-level models, but beautiful steering is a joy that keeps on giving. Designing it costs more than
if they just screwed something together. A good deck isn't
an accident either.
colt357_2004
Original Author
17 years ago
ervie, I didn't say they purchased "all" thier components, I figured they "made" some parts of the mowers, and this question has turned into a very informative thread.
I have deceided to wait until spring, to buy my new tractor. Lots of time to read the forums, and surf the net. I have this season taken care of, I can easily mow the area around the house with the walk behind. And the neighbor cuts the rest of the two acres with his brush hog. I offered fuel and beer, but he declined, said he enjoys doing it.
I doubt I will be purchasing my "dieing" tractor, but I want a good one, that will serve until the day I can afford my "dieing" tractor.
Thanks to all.
aesanders
17 years ago
Colt357 2004,

Being that you are in texas, you are more likely to find the Simplicity models badged as a Snapper, Massey Fergusen, or Agco label. Simplcity makes all these and they are all basically the same. The difference in the deck is that the Simplcity has the deck roller while the others usually do not. Being in Texas, you will find that most grasses do not stripe well thus no need for the deck roller. Simplicities are very popular in cool season grass zones, but in the south the Snapper, Massey and Agco models are generally found more readily.
mowerdan
17 years ago
I bought my 2005 Simplicity designed and built ZTR from Sears, with the Craftsman brand name on it for under 3K. It's a ZT7000 model with a 22 HP ELS B/S engine with a 50" deck and has the IZT Hydro Gear trannys. 100 hours and two mowing seasons later the unit has proved to be will worth the 3k purchase price and should last 10 or more years, without any major problems. Yes Simplicity does built a cheaper unit for other dealers, but the quality is still there.

Dan
gbrtdi
17 years ago
aesanders - My 05 Massey 2620 (s/a Broadmoor) has deck rollers. The only difference I could find when purchasing was color. Massey dealer was closer and had better service.
aesanders
17 years ago
gbrtdi,

That is why I stated "usually do not."

Go to the south and you will find most units do not have the deck roller's. The south is Snapper Country and that is one reason it made sense for Simplicity to purchase Snapper. It gave them a slew of dealers in the south where they hardly had none before.

Other than the deck rollers, they are basically the same.
canadave
17 years ago
Thought I'd just take a peek at the site since I haven't visited here for at least two years. I first found this site when I was researching the market for a tractor 3 years ago and knew squat about them at the time. As a result of the excellent input from a lot of guys here who certainly knew their tractors, I purchased a Simplicity 18 HP Conquest which has the Vanguard commercial grade engine. I've never regretted that decision and although my Conquest is now only 3 years old it runs like new and does the tough job that it's required to do. To answer the question of this thread I guess you get what you pay for and I certainly did.
mowerman42
17 years ago
Simplicity tried the low end route once, it was called the Express based on the Regent. It didn`t sell very well, so they stopped making it.
chierch
16 years ago
I dont know if anyone mentioned the type of engines they use. My conquest has an 18 hp B & S Vangaurd engine. The engine goes for 1300 alone a 17 hp intek is only 800. So you have to look at the quality of the components not just hp and inches.
quantico
16 years ago
I own four simplicity tractors and some snow blowers... I could buy whatever I wanted within reason... the simplicity tractors are well made and easily serviced and kept running 20 - 40 years based on the guys in the simplicity club... My newest tractors are mid 90's vintage... I would not swap any of my tractors for anything from sears or the cheapest murry / mtd / products...

I have more tinkering every now and then ,and my tractors are not the most beautiful with new shiny paint... but in my opinion the high quality of deere and simplicity tractors pays off in resale / and reliability / and trouble free operation... If you want a new machine every five or eight years there are plenty of basic machines that would be suitable for you... if you want to buy a machine once and drive it for twenty or thirty years then buy a simplicity or higher end deere or kubota product..
butchs_hobby
16 years ago
You get what you pay for in mowers and tractors just like anything else. When buying a new one price should be the last thing you look at, not the first. There is a difference between garden tractors and lawn tractors. Comparing the two is unfair. Of course some of the things I see labeled GT are really riding mowers with a bigger motor than the tractor can make use of. Not nameing names but I've looked around several box stores and haven't seen a real garden tractor yet! I mow each week with a 35 year old garden tractor, a 1650 Massey Ferguson, dual range foot pedal hydro, rear three point hitch, rear PTO, hydralic lift for the mmm and rear hitch. I'm not sure about Briggs owning Simplicity, on the Agco website Simplicity is listed with the Massey Ferguson. I think Agco, Massey Ferguson, and Simplicity are all under the same company and basically the same units. When you want something you can use for years to come the box stores are the wrong place to look. Quality of build costs money but I think is actually cheaper in the long run because of the extended life and fewer repairs.
ervie
16 years ago
Butchs Hobby said
"I'm not sure about Briggs owning Simplicity, on the Agco website Simplicity is listed with the Massey Ferguson."

Well I am pretty sure Briggs and Stratton bought Simplicity from a privately owned investment company about two years ago. Snapper is also now owned by Briggs since Simplicity owned Snapper.
butchs_hobby
16 years ago
Snapper and Gleason are also listed on the Agco website like they are all under that parent company. It gets confuseing as all get out who owns what any more. The Massey Ferguson website says Simplicity makes their garden tractors. My old Masseys where built by Snapper to Masseys specs--so I was told by a Snapper dealer. I couldn't argue the point either way, I did hear about Briggs buying Simplicity and Snapper.
sadixon49
16 years ago
I just checked both the Briggs website, and Agco website. Not one mention of Simplicity at B & S, but plenty about Simplicity, Snapper, Ferris, and Massey Ferguson at Agco. You are free to form your own judgments as to who owns whom.
steve
ervie
16 years ago
Massey Ferguson Lawn & Garden is a brand offered by Simplicity Manufacturing, Inc. Since its beginning in 1922, Simplicity has been an industry leader committed to designing, manufacturing, and marketing premium lawn and garden equipment. In addition to Massey Ferguson Lawn & Garden, Simplicity sells products under the brand names Simplicity, AGCO Lawn & Garden, Snapper, Snapper Pro, Ferris, and Giant-Vac. Manufactured for both residential and commercial use, Simplicity products are sold worldwide by more than 9,000 dealers and distributors. Simplicity Manufacturing is part of the Briggs & Stratton Power Products Group, L.L.C

I copied the above from Agco's website.
doopstr
16 years ago
Press release attached

Here is a link that might be useful: BRIGGS & STRATTON CORPORATION TO ACQUIRE SIMPLICITY MANUFACTURING
sadixon49
16 years ago
My bad, I do find it strange that there is no mention of Simplicity on the B & S website. I did find a news release on the B & S site, dated May 2007, talking about shutting down the Simplicity Manufacturing plant at Port Washington. No mention in that release if that meant Simplicity was just going to go away, or if they are planning to move manufactoring to some other site. It said a decision would be made by the end of June.
ducati996
16 years ago
sadixon49 ,

They dont have to mention B&S - all engines are now B&S in simplicity machines. That wasnt always the case up until recently (2 yrs)- Even the diesels motors are B & S but made in Japan.

Looks like they are just folowing the global move to off-shore mfg by shuttering the plant.
dfpmonroe
16 years ago
I am quite sure that the Simplicity mowers are top of the line by all of the posts on here giving them rave reviews, but in my 41yrs on this world I had never heard of the Simplicity brand mowers until I came on this message board about 2 months ago. I checked to find the nearest Simplicity dealer to me and the closest one is as least 50 miles away here in southern Kentucky. Guess that is why I had never hear of them or every saw one here. Out here in the rual country most just get a cheap mower just to mow with and have farm tractors around to do any of the heavy stuff with. Mowers are just like anything else I guess, you get what you pay for.
kevanos
16 years ago
Simplicity did try the "Express", which I don't know that the Simplicity name appeared on. I do know that Massey Ferguson L&G dealers and AGCO/AGCO-Allis dealers also got the Express, again without a brand. Didn't go too well.

Simplicity is owned by B&S, as several have mentioned, and B&S bought Murray in 2005. Murray=Entry level
sadixon49
16 years ago
To Ducati996, I'm not saying Simplicity dosen't mention B&S, I'm saying, I find it strange that B&S, which owns Simplicity, doesn't mention them on their website at all.
morris07034
16 years ago
Is that true that the simplicity legacy diesel is B&S made in Japan? The salesman told me they are Daihatsu engines. Or is that who is making them for B&S? Any ideas?

Also can anyone comment on the attachemtn prices for simplicity legacy
(loader for x700 is like 4k and bx1850 backhoe is 5k)?

Thanks!!

Simplicity, why so expensive?

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