will let the carb experts guide you thru, but during that proj, replace all of the fuel lines & filter if not already done. That machine is pushing 20 yrs old and the crap in yer carb may well be coming from deteriorating fuel lines...

Well I certainly am no carb expert but a 20 year old 12 B&S should have an adjustment screw sticking straight up in the bottom of the carb bowl. Turn that 1/8 turn counter clockwise (looking up at it) and see if that helps. To properly adjust, once running, turn this screw slowly clockwise until the engine falters, turn it counter clockwise until it is erratic, split the difference with a slight deference to counter clockwise from center.

Walt Conner

Do what Walt suggests.
***"It will crank, turn over, and start, run fine for about 15-seconds, then die."***
Is that the last word........"die"?? OR......do you have to repeat this "scenario" several times before the engine f i n a l l y, stays running? Or was that when you started "poking around" in the carb? :^) and managed to get it running>cut two adjoining yards>solenoid saga>today! Now what? Does it run when you try starting it today? Or is it back in a coma? I'm needing to run some errands this AM so will be back later.

Here is a link that might be useful: 280707 IPL

Mownie, sounds like you are getting impatient w/ my mower woes, lol, so sorry. I think I did mention somewhere that the solenoid/switch thing was likely not the end of it...there are actually a couple of issues I have been working on, but needed to get it STARTED in order to further diagnose and remedy those. The fuel feed thing is new, never had a problem with it before this season.

rcbe, yes I concur, this mower has some major years on it and the main fuel line hose should probably be replaced again; will do that. Does have a new filter. But I think the carb was cleaned out a couple years back when we took it to a mechanic, after I tried everything I was capable of at the time to get it started.

Walt, yes, it has that screw (sometimes the simplicity of older machines is not a bad thing, huh), and that is exactly the screw I have wondered might be out of whack; HAVE noticed it affected the way the engine runs when I put it back together after cleaning up the bowl the first time (which incidentally did not appear to have much of anything in it; not "gunk" as I would define it but wiped it out anyway). At that time after reassembly the engine was surging somewhat when it ran (correct term??)so tried turning it one way then the other and it seemed to help (that was when I was able to get the yard mowed). But feel unsettlingly unsure as to which direction and how much to turn so will try this once more, with your more specific pointers.

Mownie, sorry, bud, you ain't seen the end of me yet but I am a little less intimidated by things not electrical so hopefully won't tie up so much of your generously-given time. To answer your questions: the pattern for this problem has been: starts and runs for 10-15 secs at first try after sitting for a bit, then dies (quits, stops running, ok, will concede it is NOT entirely DEAD in that respect); repeated attempts to re-start result in shorter spans of "run" if it runs at all; tries to catch in Choke and usually when it starts to catch and you move the throttle lever it to Run (Giving it gas, right?), it takes off. But at this point when it tries to catch in choke, if you give it gas it QUITS...

Re: the link you gave to the engine operator's manual and the parts list: yes, thanks,already been there; have copies of both of those in my file. VERY useful stuff, since we only got the tractor manual with the tractor and not their referenced engine manual. So looked that up on B&S.com and downloaded long ago. That is what I used to fix the starter drive assembly last summer.

A little anecdote here, perhaps a lesson in cause and effect: the earlier bout with this problem led to repeated tries to start, which due to the fact that I was unaware of the loose connections on the solenoid at the time, probably burned up that solenoid (click click), leading me to try the other (old) solenoid I had on hand, which began blowing fuses because it WASN'T any good either (now we know lol)...so essentially back to square one of the problem that was not entirely resolved... as a harbinger of things possibly to come the only other "issue" that has been vexing me for a time is a blade drive belt problem, but will save that for another post if I can't resolve on my own. :^p

Take a deep induction.
***"Mownie, sounds like you are getting impatient w/ my mower woes, lol, so sorry."***
Hardly, just have some other tasks need attending to, and Walt was giving good advice. I tossed out the other questions because I was trying to determine whether the machine was misbehaving enough to warrant a carb teardown, or if only a gentle tweaking was needed. The action Walt wanted you to do is a basic adjustment procedure. All the questioning was to determine if your carb might actually be set "too lean" for operation. Here's why. It takes a fairly rich mixture (that means rich in fuel) to bring a cold engine to life. That is essentially what a "choke" does. It "chokes off" the carb throat, so that less air can flow into the induction system. But that's not the only way the choke richens the mix. The location of the choke plate in the carb throat ("upstream" from the fuel jet delivery ports) enhances the volume of fuel that will be drawn out of the jets whenever the choke plate is "deployed" or applied. How do these facts relate to cold start up of a carburetted engine? Let's describe how a carb that is too lean might cause an engine to behave during a cold start up. For this "hypothetical" scenario, the machine will have separate THROTTLE and CHOKE controls (wow, that sounds familar! where have I seen that?). OK, the first thing you do is open the inline fuel shutoff valve. Next, move the throttle control lever toward the "rabbit" position. Pull the choke knob out. Operate the ignition switch to crank the engine. Engine turns about one revolution and roars to life (well, maybe yours cranks a couple more turns first, or maybe I'm lying). Almost as soon as the engine begins to run on its own power, it requires more air than the applied choke will provide, and the engine begins to stumble on the now "too rich" mix being fed to the engine. So we quickly push the choke knob in a bit, engine smooths out some as it gets more air to lean out the mix. We push the choke in a bit more, allowing even more air into the carb throat, and because this lessens the "partial vacuum" that the choke plate induced, a bit LESS fuel is drawn from the jets. The mixture has gone from too rich, to too lean (for the engine's present temperature which is still cold) , and the engine dies. OK, pull the choke out again, repeat the rest of the steps. Maybe we'll have to do this over a few times until the engine gets warmed enough to maintain combustion on the fuel/air mix that is afforded by the carb in its present, "too lean", condition. You see, it's all about being able to maintain a combustible mixture of fuel and air. The ideal ratio of fuel to air is neccessary for combustion to take place. You mix it too heavy on the fuel, no combustion because there's not enough air present. You mix it too heavy on the air, no combustion because there's not enough fuel present. Well, I guess the thing we need to do is make our mixture "just right". Kinda like in Goldilocks where the three bears had a stoicheometric air/fuel ratio, not too lean, not too rich, but just right. There are lots of problems with that fairy tale. Mainly because the requirement to maintain a combustible mixture means that the carburetor needs to be almost infinitely adjustable to provide for an engine's fuel needs when cold, and after the engine gets warm. The needs between a cold engine and a warm engine are very different. When air is cold, it is DENSE and thick, or to put it another way.............the molecules of air are very close to one another, literally "rubbing elbows" and stepping on each other's feet. So thick and close that you can't turn around without knocking somebody's hat off. I mean packed in there like sardines. When you have that many air molecules gathered in such a small space, you will have too throw a lot of fuel molecules into the crowd in order for most of the air molecules to find a partner so the dance (combustion) can begin. In this cold space, the air is dense, more fuel is needed to reach a combustible ratio. So, we apply choke, which blocks a lot of air molecules from rushing in, with less air, the jets are able to add enough fuel molecules to affect a combustible mixture, and the engine will run. If we open the choke too quickly, or too wide too soon, we defeat the enriching effect before the cold engine can operate on the "now lean" mix. When an engine warms up, the volume of fuel being inducted into the engine must be reduced. The reason is because the air mass being drawn into the engine (actually it is PUSHED into the engine by atmospheric pressure, but let's just say "drawn", shall we?) is going to begin expanding and becoming "rarified" as it picks up heat from the surfaces of the intake passages on its way to the cylinder. If the same volume of fuel were added to the induction stream of a warm engine as when it was cold, the air/fuel ratio would be too rich in fuel to support combustion. The principles of thermodynamics and fluid dynamics, serendipitously provide some "self regulating actions" to maintain a viable mixture throughout the differences of temperature between a hot and cold engine. But it still requires that the induction system be well designed to match the engine.
OK, back to earth. kssue, YOUR carb may be too lean, presently. Hopefully, you will make the adjustments as Walt suggested and be able to have an easier time of starting the cold engine, and transit from "choke on" to "choke off" better than you have been able to. Keep us posted. You may be asked to "pull the spark plug" and report on the color of the threaded end. Might be a good time to shoot some pics and post when/if asked about plug color.

O-K, lol...you certainly have a gift for translating the thermodynamics and fluid dynamics of the situation, ahem, so they are understandable to laypeople like me, heh.

I did try tweaking the screw so to speak but could not keep it running long enough to detect the difference in the engine when turning it. Don't think I've ever mentioned that I am hearing-impaired so it is a little hard for me to make out the finer nuances in the way the engine sounds, although i can usually FEEL it somewhat. Dying and faltering are pretty easy to detect, ha, erratic is also not so hard, but it did not seem to be changing much while I was turning it. Probably ought to get my hubby out there to listen to it with me next try. Then it quit and even turning the screw first one way a little bit at a time for a couple of start attempts then back the other way for a few tries could not get it to run long enough to adjust it. Subsequent tries it would only barely start to catch a little on choke, and then quit almost immediately when I released the key. I did try to make the initial adjustment when it WAS running with the throttle lever at RUN, so maybe the engine was not warm enough to maintain the mixture it was being fed?? Also, assuming the engine is warming up somewhat as I am doing these repeated attempts to start it and short spans of fire-up then quitting (warm enough to make the muffler pretty hot??) should I still be moving it to choke everytime when trying to start it? Though in the current situation it will only fire up if it is on choke, once I have run it the initial short 10-15 second stint. After that I can't keep it running at all.

So maybe that will give you two a bit more insight into what is going on; I am trying to replicate what it is doing to the best of my knowledge and limited mower mechanic vocabulary. I will look at the plug again tomorrow; since it is brand new it would be interesting to see if it is getting fouled up. I will take a pic of that and the plug that I removed/replaced when it was doing this before. Generally if I replace a part that doesn't solve the problem I tend to hang onto the old one for a spare in case the old one was not faulty...(heh heh look where that got me with the solenoid).

Usually (when it is running the way it should be) the first time it is started from cold/choke, it fires up after turning over a couple times, but won't run on choke for long (if at all) unless you move the throttle lever to RUN fairly quickly after it fires up, and then it runs fine. So perhaps it has been adjusted wrong all along, and possibly not just at that screw? I have not been able to find a good description of how to adjust the various carburetor screws for optimum operation but Walt, you gave me a pretty good starting point.

Here is another question about that screw. When removing the bowl to clean it out I had to first remove that screw, then the nut under it, I think. So when I reassembled, I had no clue how far in or out it needed to be positioned to an approximately correct setting from which to make the adjustments. (Lesson: take pics BEFORE you start.) So guess I need to know...which direction is lean and which is rich? IE which is In and which is out, relative to the screw head's movement toward or away from the bowl? Clockwise is in, CCW is out, like any screw. So in other words it may be so far off where it needs to be that a 1/8 turn either way is not going to do much of anything?

I am also kind of concerned about cranking the engine repeatedly to get it to start, after having burned up the other solenoid, and having a slightly fickle starter as well; worried more about burning up the starter than anything but it DOES seem to work ok for the most part and I am trying to let it cool down between starting sessions of a couple of tries apiece. I have had the starter shroud/cover off so I can see what it is doing since it sticks sometimes and does not engage the flywheel (the drive shaft does not always come up...but seem to have fixed that with a little WD40 on the shaft).

I think I will cut this short and run it back to you guys before I start going on (more than i already have, lol)about other things I think it could be. But do please fire away (pun? again? lol) if you have further diagnostic questions you need answered, or clarifications of stuff I have already rambled on about.

OK, another deep, cleansing induction...whooo. :)

***"should I still be moving it to choke everytime when trying to start it?"***
No, if you have managed to run it long enough (in the course of several restarts) for the muffler to get VERY HOT, you can probably skip further application of the choke, or at least, use just a little choke. Continuing to choke a warm engine will "flood it".
***"Here is another question about that screw.........it may be so far off where it needs to be that a 1/8 turn either way is not going to do much of anything?"***
That statement is valid. To cover the missing piece of your puzzle, the initial, rule of thumb (SWAG method) is to "very gently" turn the screw clockwise until it "bottoms out" in the jet. From this point, turn the screw counter clockwise "one and a half, to two turns" (1.5 to 2 turns CCW). This initial setting will get you inside the "window of operation. If you are hearing impaired (say what?), you may want to get someone with better hearing to listen to the engine while you "fine tune" the main jet adjustment. Or you may want to try the initial setting and then operate the tractor in cutting duty for a period of use (5 minutes minimum) and then come back and "read the spark plug color". If you opt for the "run it and then check plug" test, you should be able to tell right away if the engine is making adequate power or not, but don't come right back and read the plug until you have run the engine for 5 minutes or so. It will require that 5 minutes running to obliterate any color the plug might have acquired in the previous setting of carb. If you decide to do the "run it and then check plug" test, let us know the color you see, or post photo if possible.
Your concerns about the starter overheating (and solenoid) due to the continued unproductive cranking are valid. Draining the battery voltage will also contribute to heat production in both components. To make your adventure more enjoyable, keep a battery charger connected to the battery while you allow the starter and solenoid to cool. 20 to 30 SECONDS is the maximum time a starter should be held engaged (do the ole "one mississippi, two mississippi, three...etc. to keep up with the time, stop watch is too cumbersome). If you crank the engine longer than that, you risk damage to the internal wiring of both starter and solenoid, starter more so than solenoid. Allow at least 5 minutes cool down of starter if you log a 30 second period of engagement. Limiting the engagement to 20 seconds with 5 minute cooling is better.
The battery will enjoy 5 minutes cool and recharge too.

Ok, very good info. I don't really crank the starter more than 5-10 seconds at a time anyway so good to know these limitations. But figure if it is not catching why burn it up. Did read in a post somewhere that lowered voltage from the battery will produce more heat or something along those lines so will take that pointer to heart, keeping a charger hooked up when it is sitting to cool.

Will try the SWAG method (ok what does SWAG stand for) on the main jet adjustment screw. Quite possible I have had it set out too far. I can't remember if I ran the tractor before or after I changed the plug so if I can get it to run without stalling, will test it that way. might look at the plug first and snap a shot of it anyway...b-4 and after??

Yeah, lol, I should probably get someone with ears out there since you can't really lip-read a mower, heh...sure, I can hear it running, but I can't make out what it is saying heh heh.

Back on this later.

Ok, that did not work. I am beginning to think there is still more stuff in the carb or fuel line somewhere that is plugging it up.

After starting right up and running good for 20 seconds, it stalled out. Could not get it running again. I took a picture of the spark plug before I did anything (against your suggestion, heh, reasoning follows) and sat and thought about exactly WHEN that plug went in; it did get the 2-yard mowing job on it because the presumed fuel starvation happened first, drained the gas tank and replaced fuel filter, refilled tank and got same result, thought maybe the plug was going bad so replaced the plug, still no go, so SIGH drained the fuel again, disconnected line, took out float needle (is that what it's called?) on bowl, removed bowl, wiped it out, poked the orifices, and put it back together. THEN it ran fine and I was able to mow before it would not restart after stopping. So I am pretty sure there is a good 45 min to an hour on that plug before it went dormant during the solenoid/switch stint. When I took it out to inspect tonight it did look rather black. On the other hand the plug I was originally replacing was more brown than black.

I have a shot of this plug taken with and without the flash; the flash photo is a little out of focus cause my camera wasn't focusing right in macro (am I cursed or what)and it does not look as black in that shot so will post both. What now...

(I am trying to figure out how to post pics so if they don't show up.... I'll have to try again.)

{{gwi:335772}}

grrr, I can't figure out how to get the darn pix from photobucket into the message! Let me try again:

{{gwi:335773}}

{{gwi:335774}}

On one of my cameras, I have to reselect "macro" after each shot. I think there is a way to change that on the menu, but I think I like it better when it defaults back to normal focal parameters. I take fewer extreme close-ups than regular photos, so I think I'm safer having to remember to set macro for every shot where I need macro instead of forgetting and wasting pixels on a fuzzy regular shot.
Anyhow, your pictures are very revealing, right now I can tell you that darn engine is running way too rich. Possibly even showing some traces of lube oil. Have we had the discussion about the importance of installing and using an inline fuel shutoff valve in the gas line?
Does this engine put out any smoke while running? If yes, what color smoke are you seeing?
If you are referring to the screw you removed from the bottom of the bowl when taking off the bowl as "float needle", nope, that isn't the float needle. The screw you are removing is known as a fuel metering screw, sometimes called power adjustment screw, sometimes call the (unprintable, unprintable). Basically, this adjuster screw allows you do have a "variable main jet", which is something that makes the EPA see red and bite pencils in half. The looks of your plugs are why. You need to turn the screw clockwise about one half turn and run the engine again. SWAG is a "British" acronym used by mechanics world wide. In lieu of having the "proper" test equipment, manuals, and personell, your only choice sometimes is to SWAG it. Scientific Wild Arse Guess.

LOL, SWAG it is, 99% of the time when you have my lack of knowledge...and analytical mindset...

Actually the blurry photo was taken first; my camera stays on macro till you turn it off or change it, and for some reason was not zoning in on the plug. Turned it off and on again and got the other photo, a little more clear.

The plug DID have a bit of an oily appearance but was not sure if that was oil or fuel. I don't think the oil was overfilled though it WAS low and topped off. but never was overfull, after checking again.

We have not discussed installing an inline fuel shutoff valve but I do have one on my old John Deere push mower (another relic, ca 1994, but still running strong...which together with my 12-year-old son makes a good back up to the disabled Huskee, lol) and have also read several admonitions to install a fuel shutoff valve in other posts (probably yours, lol) so suppose that would be prudent. Especially if I am going to go ahead and change the fuel line anyway. Wouldn't it be the sort to just connect the line to both ends with the valve in between? Not much harder than the fuel filter right? Where is the best place to get something like that, since it is not an OEM item for this mower?

Ok on to diagnosing the problem at hand. I am not seeing smoke at all when it is running, I don't think. I will start it up again tonight and watch it because if there is anything it might be a small puff at fire-up, and I am thinking it is blue or white. But seem recall no smoke coming out at all. Bears checking again, for sure.

Another SWAG on the rich mix observation: could that show up if the engine is flooded as well? You stated that it would flood if I am choking it to start when it is semi-warm. I suppose another telling sign of rich mix is that it does not catch very well on choke when cold; you have to move the throttle lever to RUN before it catches and goes. But then after it dies (ahem, stalls) it won't catch there (in RUN) again (though NORMALLY it would); only tries to catch if you move it back to choke, and then it DOESN'T catch. (CATCH meaning firing up)

So, fuel leaking into the engine or combustion chamber in excess, in some respect perhaps? I suppose if I leave the plug out and crank it fuel is going to shoot out of the hole? Have read of that under some other post as well but forget the circumstances...too many hours of sifting thru posts to clearly delineate the symptoms with the causes...heh heh, the true armchair mechanic.

Will try to fire it up again tonight with the screw turned in more and see what happens. Might have to put all on hold thru the rest of the week since I am going out of town tomorrow (Wed) and won't be back til Sun night. But will post any findings from tonight before we go.

Hi kssue,

you can get the fuel cutoff valve at almost any mower/tractor parts supplier, and i have seen them in Lowes and H.Depot as well. On a lucky day you might even find them in Walmart - if your shopping during the correct season.

I generally place the cutoff valve between the gas tank and the fuel filter (with nothing being between the fuel filter and the carb). My reasoning is that when you turn the valve on and off - you may inadvertently shake some gunk free that was attached to the valve and now its making its way to the carb... If the filter is after the valve (and before the carb) you have a good chance of catching it before it makes its way into the fuel bowl of the carb....

Others may have differing opinions on this - i would be interested in hearing them.

Good luck to you - it sounds like your 9/10 ths done.

I am basing my opinion on the appearance of the plugs (color, and wet sheen). But, if the photos you took were after the engine ran for only 20 seconds from cold start up, and further cranking trying (unsuccessfully) to restart, reading the color and appearance are not a valid evaluation. The results in the photo actually only show a plug still wet with gasoline from failed attempts to start the engine. Not exactly the same as taking the picture after a 5 minute run under loaded conditions, but I realize we gotta get the durn thing to run 5 minutes first.
***"if I leave the plug out and crank it fuel is going to shoot out of the hole?"***
Not unless there is a problem with the float, needle & seat, that allows fuel to leak and overflow the carb bowl, and "drown" the engine. That condition will also put gasoline into the crankcase lube oil. "Flooding and drowning" might sound like the same affliction but actually are not. By the way, the following scenario only affects vehicles that are carburetted, and some of the descriptions are for cars and light trucks. "Flooding" means that too much fuel has been offered to the engine for the present high temperature of the engine. This might be caused by float being set too high, or the operator improperly "patting" the accelerator pedal prior to cranking, or applying the choke when the engine is warm. "Flooding is expected to be a temporary problem that can be overcome by holding the throttle wide open while cranking the engine until it "catches" and runs. "Drowning" is much more serious and requires remedial action to several parameters before the engine can be safely operated again.Drowning occurs when the float needle valve fails to stop the fuel flowing from tank to carb when the engine is shut of and stored. Drowning also requires a gravity fed fuel system, or a fuel system where the gasoline in the tank can be at a higher elevation than the carb for at least some of the time (as when the tank is completely filled with fuel. An inline fuel shutoff valve (and using it) is the best safeguard against "fuel drowning". Install the fuel shutoff valve between the tank and the fuel filter. In this configuration, the fuel filter can be changed after cutting off the valve (no spill gas that way) AND if you ever need to drain the tank, the valve makes it easy to separate the valve from the hose (hose between valve and filter) and slip an extension hose onto the valve so the tank can be drained into a suitable catch container.
One more thing tonight, tell me about that spark plug and its two electrodes. My personal opinion of these types of plugs has always been the same one I hold for "snake oil" medications, elixers, and other purported panaceas. I have heard from a lot of people in my field that these plugs actually require a higher tension (electromotive force or voltage potential) to get decent and dependable spark output. Or in other words, if you also have a high performance ignition system in the vehicle, these plugs might just give you an edge (though a small one). If your ignition system is "stock", you might do worse with this type plug than with conventional "single electrode" plugs. So tell me how you came to have this plug in your Briggs.
All I'll add to what njdpo mentioned about sources for the inline valve is this. Most auto parts stores also feature a small engine section these days. You should not have to pay more than $6 or $7 at the most. Stens is a good brand name (and usually easy to find). Make certain you are buying one that matches the hose diameter on your Huskee.

njdpo, thanks for the input. I think we all agree that it makes sense to put it in before the filter. mownie made some good points about being able to shut it off to change the filter (would've been nice the 2 times I have had the line off and drained the tank during this whole ordeal, lol) and do other stuff, along with the added benefit of not drowning the engine, if that IS what is happening. Bet they have one at TSC (Tractor Supply Co), where this mower came from; they have a pretty good array of parts. Yeah, I would check Walmart too; I was surprised to find the right B&S fuel filter there the other day. But they did not have the right spark plug, grr.

Ok, you guys have sold me on the fuel shutoff, will put it on the list.

Mownie, first the plug: The pictures were taken BEFORE running it at all, after it had sat from the night before; the idea was to do a before and after set but it only ran for 20 secs and I did not take pics after that, I don't think... I may have looked at it and it looked the same, then put it back in and shoved the beast back into the garage in disgust, lol. Although may have still been "wet" from the previous eve's attempts to start.

That evil-looking plug was merely what caught my eye as looking like a good quality plug (like you can tell by looking at it, ha), plus it came with a lifetime guarantee that it would be the last plug you'd ever buy. HUH, I'll believe that when I see it. So maybe I should put the old plug back in since there is a good chance it was just fine; that plug was a dull brown at removal. Heck I'll try anything at this point.

I did as you suggested and turned the screw another 1/2 turn CW but still did the same thing, fired up and ran fine for 20 secs then stopped, then would not start again. Tried another half turn the same direction followed by attempted start, twice, to no avail... pretty much the same symptoms as previously described.

SOooo....wanted to ask...is it possible the MUFFLER or exhaust would have anything to do with this? The muffler is pretty rusty-looking on the outside, kind of like it looks like it will never come off again.

Also, watched for smoke, there was none whatsoever that I could see, no backfiring or anything like that. It seems to me it might be acting like there is a blockage of some sort somewhere in the fuel line somewhere that is allowing enough fuel to get through when it sits for a time for it to run for a short span, but not enough to keep it running. Maybe I SHOULD also double-check the vents on the cap too. On the other hand the plug's complexion indicated a rich mix though, huh.

Should I just try repeating the perfunctory carb-bowl cleaning I did before, that seemed to work?

Won't get back to it til next week sometime but I will dig this up and post back; meanwhile if you have any other suggestions, fire away, heh heh.

lose the lifetime plug - replace with new properly gapped plug called for by engine mfgr.

When removing/cleaning that carb again, take notes/pix to have a putbacktogewther trail. Get a good magnifier and use it - some of those passageways are mighty small. Some fine stranded copper wire will help to clear 'em along with plenty of spray carb cleaner. use a fresh carb gasket kit.

Rusty muffler is commonplace - usually only needs replacing if rusted out or baffled up inside - you would hear those.

Thanks, rcbe, I will likely go this route. Wondered too if there might be a leaky gasket somewhere.

That plug is the correct size and gap but I am thinking after listening to you guys it might make sense to go back to the other.

OK, will be gone til next Mon so won't be able to do any actual work for now but will check back periodically for new posts. Thanks EVERYONE.

***"added benefit of not drowning the engine, if that IS what is happening."***"first the plug: The pictures were taken BEFORE running it at all, after it had sat from the night before"***
OK, so, "sat from the night before"??? Does that mean you parked the tractor immediately after running, while the engine was "hot from use"??? OR you had been trying unsuccessfully to get the engine started and running....prior to it having sat through the night??? This detail is quite important because: If you stopped the engine while "hot from use", there "should not" have been ANY wetness (unless from oil, but you say engine does not smoke) or "sheen" visible on the plug. The heat from use would have left the plug completely dry and any soot or carbon (from rich mix) would have been "dry and powdery". But, on the other hand, if you had been repeatedly cranking the engine (unproductively), and then just decided "to heck with this!!!! I'm done for today and I'll come back tomorrow"........and then next AM pulled the plug and photo'ed it, I'm afraid we still can't say for sure if your carb is "drowning" your engine, or if the wet condition of plug is simply from all the unproductive cranking.
I'm thinking that "drowning" might already be taking place, and may be contributing to your present problem. One thing kssue should do at this point is to "pull" the oil dipstick and: (1)Smell the oil for the presence of gasoline. With so much unproductive cranking of the engine, plus the indicated "over rich" condition of the carb, even if the engine has not been "drowned", it certainly has been "flooded", and gasoline "might" be present in the fuel.(2) Do a "runny test". In the "old days", if a mechanic suspected gasoline contamination of the crankcase lube oil, he might perform a SWAG "runny test" by pulling the oil dipstick and then touch the wet end of the dipstick to one of his fingertip or palm callouses. Then he would observe how the oil "dispersed" from the central drop, into the swirls and whorls of the friction ridges in the skin. If the oil was thinned or contaminated with gasoline, he would see a relatively rapid spread of "color" into the network of tiny grooves that are the "trough" counterpart of the friction ridges of skin that comprise our "fingerprints". If the oil was not thinned, the drop of oil would tend to remain in the form of the single drop that was deposited on the hand. I no longer suggest that anyone perform the "runny test" in the manner of putting suspected oil on human skin. A similar test can be done using a piece of "unwaxed" or "unfinished" cardboard. This "plain ole cardboard" is the kind most packaging boxes are made of. All you need is a clean, dry piece of this cardboard. Using the oil dipstick, deposit one or two drops onto the cardboard. After the oil is put onto the cardboard, lay the cardboard on a flat surface, oily side up. Use a watch or other timekeeper to measure elapsed time. If the oil is very thinned (high gasoline content), the entire amount of oil will be absorbed into the cardboard in a matter of 3 minutes or less. The less gasoline in the oil, the slower the drop will be absorbed. Because there is no way to control all the possible variables of this test (moisture content of specific cardboard, type of cardboard, ambient temperature, etc.), it helps to also use an identical (or the same) piece of cardboard and test some other "oil samples" from different sources to compare the time it takes for the oil to absorb. Even that will be inconclusive unless the oil samples originally were the same product. But, if you use a couple drops of suspect oil, a couple drops from a different engine (believed to be ok), and a couple drops from a container of fresh, unused oil, you can get a pretty good idea. When I do this, I use a pencil to "graph" the growth of the "halo" that will spread outward from the center of the initial drop. Using the "timer", I mark the progress of the "halo formation" at one minute intervals. If you plan to test other sample for comparison, do them all in about the same hour using the same source of cardboard. Realistically speaking, the "runny test" is kinda "long and drawn out" for using to determine if oil is fit for service or not. It mainly serves as a way to get an indicator of gas in the oil AT THE TIME OF THE TEST only. In the case of the engine in this thread, I would probably be inclined to just say, "I don't know if I have gas in the oil, but with all that's been going on, there should be some gas in the oil. Therefore, I'm going to install the inline fuel shutoff valve and then change the oil for "peace of mind".
***"first the plug: The pictures were taken BEFORE running it at all, after it had sat from the night before"***
Oh, you mentioned "Have read of that under some other post as well but forget the circumstances...too many hours of sifting thru posts". In response to that, I am going to create a new thread to outline a "trick" I use a lot to "streamline" researching and saving found information. I'll probably come back to this thread and post a "cross link" to the new thread as well.

Below is the "cross link" to the thread mentioned above.

Here is a link that might be useful: Copy and paste to your advantage

kssue said:
"That plug is the correct size and gap but I am thinking after listening to you guys it might make sense to go back to the other. "

Pleeeeease Lose it and replace with a new properly gapped one spec'd out for yer engine !! Also toss that old plug - ain't that much cost - and you don't want a balky plug confounding you and us right on.

Well sitting in a motel rm in Branson right now (daughter's dance nationals competition) but will take all this in over the next day or two. Mownie, I am pretty sure I parked it after unproductive cranking...it has not started after the first 20 second run, two or three eves in a row. Usually work on it in the eve after I get home from the shop. So it has NOT been running long enough to burn the fuel off of it. It has not been RUNNING at all!! Except for a short 20 second span at initial attempt each eve.

I do think I sniffed the oil on the dipstick at one point wondering if it was contaminated by fuel (you wrote *** "With so much unproductive cranking of the engine, plus the indicated "over rich" condition of the carb, even if the engine has not been "drowned", it certainly has been "flooded", and gasoline "might" be present in the fuel.*** You mean in the oil, right? Yes I think you will find gasoline in the fuel :) )

I will try the other test you describe, makes sense. I seem to be smelling fuel everywhere anyway so this might be more conclusive. Need to digest the rest of what you have written, will come back to it and check your cross link tomorrow (I have GOT to stop doing this at 2-3AM, lol)when my brain is more functional...

Rcbe, I think I was having trouble finding the right size plug that day anyway, but I PROMISE I will get a new one, standard type, okey doke? Just might not hurt to try the one I have on hand temporarily to see if it makes any difference. I agree, it is only a couple bucks.

Back on all this soon.

"and gasoline "might" be present in the fuel."
***"You mean in the oil, right? Yes I think you will find gasoline in the fuel"***
As Steve Erkel might say, "Did I do that?" Yes kssue, you got me on that one, and I would certainly hope to find gasoline in the fuel, UNLESS.....we had a Diesel engine for the power plant.
..................................................
***"I seem to be smelling fuel everywhere anyway"***
Yeah, you noticed? That aspect was the main reason (so I've been told) why a lot of old mechanics did the "finger or palm" test. After spending so much time in the service bay, EVERYTHING smelled like gas.

Boy, had to search for this thread to get back to it, lol..sorry.

Yep, gotcha on that one Mownie, ha ha,would've been easy to miss.

Got back last week, and I went and got carb cleaner, new plug, fuel line, and shutoff valve, and went to tackle the ol' dinosaur AGAIN...but NOW the freaking garage door is stuck shut (we inherited the building when we purchased the property next door to ours from the previous owner, who went into a nursing home and died, leaving no key for the manual door handle...) so I can't even GET to the the mower right now. GRRRR...a continuing saga. Ready to kick a hole in the ol' weathered fiberglass...no, can't afford a new door...It appears to be an electrical issue with the line supplying the garage (and therefore the garage door opener, which we can't bypass--no other entrance) so will have to wait until I get that resolved to get back to my beastly pet. Maybe before the snow starts falling???? Oy, sooner, I hope...at least the John Deere 14PZ push mower was not in there so we won't disappear behind amber waves of grain...heh heh.