Why not Gingko? Doesn't have blooms but it is a city tree and why not a Franklinia for shade? It doesn't matter what type of soil that is existing it is how you amend the soil when you plant, FYI, I am old school because I want the roots to grow into an optimum medium not clay. If you plant properly the trees should grow a foot per year.

Here is a link that might be useful: Propagating Perennials

Wow, Franklinia sounds really interesting. Great story on provenance (www.floridata.com). I hadn't ever heard of it, but will look into that further.

Funny you mention gingkos. I was surprised that didn't show up on an old thread here about "most over-planted trees". In Brooklyn, Gingkos are a common city-planted street tree. The females drop the smelly fruit (we call them Stinko Gingkos!), and the older trees often end up looking like tall sticks with leaves. They don't seem to fill out at the crown. Or perhaps the city conducts brutal pruning. So we're staying away from them. But just personal preference -- before I lived here & dealt with stinky sidewalk mess, I used to love Gingkos.

Other thoughts on trees that will grow reasonably quickly while maxxing out around 30-40'? Thanks.

Eastern Red Cedar is well-behaved tree close to that size range, but no flowers.
Southern Catalpa has flowers and is in that size range. It also has beans that fall in the yard.
Most standard size fruiting pears have well-behaved shape and hit about 30'. They also flower nicely in the spring.

30-40' range is medium size tree. Most tree heights are probably what you can expect in 20-30 yrs. or so. Note tho that many trees will continue to grow slowly after that. Sunlight, rainfall, soil, and temperature are main determing environmental factors. When a book says up to 10 meters that is probably the average size you will see from this tree. Maximum size under ideal conditions and years of growth will be bigger.

Halesia Carolina brings back memories of Farmingdale. That needs a high humus well drained moist soil. That might be your best bet. Not the Maples nor the Sorbus.

Here is a link that might be useful: Propagating Perennials

Thanks both. Scotjute, we were originally very interested in a pear tree for faster growth, flowers, and size, but having read the arguments against Callery/Bradford, we've taken off the list. Is a "fruiting pear" different? If yes, is it a slower grower?

Bullthistle, we are really interested in the Halesia. Hoping for something that has a tree look, as opposed to giant bush -- do you think we can achieve this? (I haven't found a lot of good photos showing the whole tree.)

What about shantung maple? It's pretty fast grower. I've seen a 25' over 8 years in sandy soil over here in Texas where it rains a lot or it doesn't rain at all some years so you can see it's pretty hardy tree. Grows to be 35x35' size. Voted one of the best ice and wind resistant tree in Kansas which I agree. I couldn't break 3/4" branch in half. Yellow fall color is the typical color but orange or red might happen. I have 'Fire Dragon' SM that produces red fall color consistently and it grew over 3 foot last year in terrible rocky soil (can grow 4-6 feet a year in a good soil when cared for properly). If you're willing to wait till next winter, You can order a 4 ft dormant Fire Dragon from Metro Maples from Ft Worth, Texas. Very interesting leaves. The new leave growth in the summer would be reddish purple and it is quite noticeable. When it is large enough, it will produce bright yellow flowers that apparently do not produce many viable seeds (according to Metro Maples owner who has them all over the property).

{{gwi:340438}}

How about 'Shawnee Brave' bald cypress? You could plant a couple of these in the far back against the tall wall. It's narrow but tall with dark green and dense foliage that is not typically seen in bald cypress.

Thanks for the additional ideas! Those maple leaves are beautiful. How much sun does the Shantung require? Location we're planning gets a solid 6 hours during the summer, but much less the rest of the year. The size looks right. Appreciate your sharing one that's worked for you.

Re bald cypress -- that's where I was originally going, something tall and skinny to cover that bare wall. But now leaning toward a more conventional tree shape.

Has anyone grown a Halesia monticola (instead of carolina)? Sounds like it is a much faster grower than other varieties, but not sure if it's possible to find, and how different it is.

Shantung maple can handle full sun to partial sun. Mine grows in the west and south side and they get a lot of sun with no problem. The spot where you would be planting this smaller tree, when would you start getting the sunlight and when will you stop getting the sunlight?

Lou, in the back corner (bigger tree of the 2) sun is right now from approx 9:30am to 3:00pm. Closer to the house (smaller tree) it's currently sunny from approx 11:00am to 3:30pm. Walls, other houses, etc, getting in the way.

Now that I'm leaning toward a halesia carolina/monticola for the bigger tree, and still liking the cornus alternifolia for the shadier site, you're making me think we should add a small ornamental maple somewhere. Really like those leaves.

Here's one for you: Butternut.

Butternut can be huge - plus I have read that there seems to be a disease problem with them.

Typically, they only grow to about 40-60'. And they are considered threatened in the wild.

Thanks quercus macro & dibbit. I looked up butternut & thought it might be a little big for the space.

I'll ask the question again about Halesia carolina/monticola -- does anyone have experience with both? Thanks everybody, and let me know if you would suggest a different forum. I'm continually impressed by how much knowledge there is among the posters here.