American Beauty rose?

13 years ago

I took an unknown rose from my garden to the Celebration today. One person thought it was a hybrid perpetual, and another person thought it might be the HP American Beauty. I looked AB up on HMF, and the internet, and found some pictures that looked exactly like my rose, and some that looked really different. The different ones (as well as some descriptions) were of a very double rose - about 50 petals. Mine only has about 20 petals -I just tore several blossoms apart. In my 20 + years of growing it, I have never seen a very very double blossom. The color (carmine pink, moving from an almost dark raspberry bud to a much paler open flower) and leaves (almost round, light green & shiny) were just like some of the pictures. Other pictures (the very double kind) seemed to be much redder, with more yellow and less blue in the color, and more elongated leaves.

So, my question is - is this one of those old famous roses that might have more than one type in commerce? Do any of you know anyone who knows about this rose? It was growing in 5 very separated places in our garden when we moved in. I figure it was planted 65-80 years ago. It blooms all summer, which I didn't realized until the tree one plant was growing under was taken out. In shade, it only blooms once. It tip roots madly in full sun. It makes a bush about 5-6 feet tall, but it is floppy, and in shade against a fence or wall will climb up to 8-9 feet. It is very fragrant (at least to me). Thanks for your help -

Jackie

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Comments (7)

malcolm_manners
13 years ago
See the vintage site for their comments on the 'real' thing, vs. it's old imposter, Ulrich Brunner, fils. We've grown the latter, sold for many years as 'American Beauty' by Roses of Yesterday and Today, and of course that was the source of most people's OGRs for many years.

Here is a link that might be useful: Vintage Gardens' website
jaxondel
13 years ago
Here's another Vintage link.

Here is a link that might be useful: 'American Beauty' @ Vintage
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As I recall, the true "American Beauty" rose is a deep pink shrub, and a very finicky grower, but so beautiful that other similar looking roses were called "American Beauty" to ride on its coattails. So there are other roses out there called "American Beauty" but they aren't necessarily the same thing. Frau Karl Drushki was called White American Beauty because a) calling anything "American Beauty" increased sales and b) we were at war with Germany at the time so German names were a big no-no in the American marketplace. HelpMeFind does not list any North American nurseries selling White American Beauty, Cl. All the ones that do have it are in Europe and are selling it as Frau Karl Drushki, Cl. Buying one in the US seems to mean getting an imposter. But if you're happy with it, who cares!
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Usually, roses drop foliage due to water stress or disease. If the plant isn't able to absorb enough water to keep growing and flowering, it sheds the leaves to stop transpiration, sweating, which generates the siphon necessary to carry water and absorbed nutrients from the roots to the cane tips. Loss of foliage means the plant can't feed itself as there is only the photosynthesis going on in the green cane parts. If the sun and heat are intense enough, the canes can be scalded, sun burned, which can kill them outright. The other common cause is due to fungal attack. Are you seeing abnormally high levels of black spot or rust infections on either plant? Are these grown against hot walls where the reflected/radiated heat is "cooking" them? Are they surrounded by hard scape, side walks, patios, etc., which may also be cooking them with unusually high reflected/radiated heat? How is the drainage under these two plants? Does the soil stay moist or does it appear to dry out completely? Perhaps they aren't receiving enough water to battle the heat they experience, or the soil is so porous it doesn't maintain sufficient water reserves to keep the roses leaved out successfully over the hotter period? It is quite common for larger plants, climbers in particular, to have "bare knees". The foliage at that level is older and often that portion of the plant doesn't receive enough light to maintain healthy, productive foliage so the plant sheds them. If your plants are bare up where they should have productive, healthy foliage, you have some serious issues which need diagnosing and correction. Good luck! I hope something here points you in the right direction to fix your rose problem. Kim
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jannorcal
13 years ago
Jackie,
I think that it was thought to be Climbing American Beauty, which is different than the HP American Beauty.
I was there when Jill, Gregg and Tamara were discussing it.
Janelle
siriamrit
13 years ago
The real American Beauty has several distinctive characteristics. It is thorny, whereas the Ulrich Brunner Fils I grew had few if any thorns. Under the base of the leaf where it meets the cane, you will often (but not always) find a pair of hooked prickles like a goathead. The flower itself is very full, usually with a button eye. The color is medium to deep pink and often has a wash of cloudy, smoky purplish pink hues, all blended together with veining in the petals. Ulrich Brunner Fils has fewer petals of a flat carmine color, and a more modern appearance.

Vintage Gardens carries it as does Roses Unlimited. Vintage's stock came from the late Siegfried Hahn's garden in Albuquerque, where he had two verified plants of American Beauty. I believe he also sent cuttings to Roses Unlimited, and their American Beauty is correct.

Here is a link that might be useful: American Beauty Rose
mendocino_rose
13 years ago
Climbing American Beauty is really pretty big. I don't think you'd confuse it for a shrub. Gosh we went on and on with IDs yesterday. I'm only good at it if I have "multiple choice" or if it's something I've grown and I'm really familiar with.
jacqueline9CA
Original Author
13 years ago
Thank you, thank you!

I looked at all of the pictures of Cl American Beauty, American Beauty, and Ulrich Brunner fils on HMF. Well, it is definitely not American Beauty. Between the other two, it is harder to choose because both look very similar to my rose. However, as I have had one plant growing in actual full sun (which is very rare in my garden) for over 6 years, and it has NEVER put out anything even remotely resembling a climbing cane (it does travel sideways, but not by long canes, but by tip rooting off the very flexible 4-5 foot canes it does put out - once there were 3 new plants of it the same size as the original before I noticed them!). So, I don't think it can be Cl American Beauty. Also, the color of my rose looks much more like the pictures of UBf on HMF - the buds are a really dark raspberry, and the blooms only gradually lighten to medium pink. I think it is most probably Ulrich Brunner fils, which I never would have found without your advice.

My husband's ancestors always planted well known and popular roses of the day, so they probably thought they were planting American Beauty. Anyway, I love this rose, as it does grow in shade, and is easy to get new plants from, and blooms all summer.

Jackie
buffington22
13 years ago
My CAB from ARE is huge but gorgeous. Doesn't mind being thinned out in the least.

American Beauty rose?

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American Beauty rose?

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