that is for sure Pyracantha. The "other" hawthorn, Crataegus, has never that many showy berries. Growth habit is different, Pyracantha, especially when pruned regularly, will produce long, leggy shoots, with short branches positioned at a more or less 90degree angle, (and is mostly a shrub) leaves are smaller, more shiny and -at least in my zone 7- almost evergreen, lasting even till after some light frost. Crataegus is a large group (genus) with many species, several grow like small trees, some like shrubs they tend to be more densly branched, berries on the red side (Cant remeber finding yellow or orange berries like with Pyracantha) the berries tend to grow on the tips of the branches, not over the whole length of young shoots foliage of Cr. is quite often ( coarsly) serrated they do have thicker, shorter thorns (Crataegus monogyna), some even much larger and sprouting from the stem (C crus-galli) personally I would say clipping a Pyracantha hedge (thorns go through leather pants and parts can break off...) is worse than pruning Crataegus monogyna or the small tree Cr. Pauls`s Scarlet. well, some others can chip in hopefully, bye, Lin

Victor and Arbordave, thanks for the replies. Next time I'm over at that shopping center I will try take a photo of the trees in question. That might help solve the mystery! I do recall that last year these hawthorns were literally covered in orange/reddish fruits, roughly 3/8" to 1/2" in size. There were so many fruits that the branches looked to be drooping. These trees did have thorns for sure, but not very many thorns. Some branches had none at all while others had several in the 2" to 3" range. I've read online that there are literally a thousand different hawthorn species due to crossbreeding, and that many arborists or local DNR workers can't tell them apart. Having said that, I'm sure I couldnt tell them apart! Winter King does seem to be one of the most popular hawthorns here in Michigan and probably one of the easiest to find as well. We have fairly tough conditions here (wind, summer droughts, cold snowy winters, etc.) so we'd want a hawthorn that did well in those conditions. It will be mulched and watered, but low maintenance is key. Also we have lots of deer so hopefully they don't like harthorns for breakfast! We'll take a look athe local garden centers in the next few weeks and see what we can find. Thanks everyone. Regards, Dave

First of all, besides the question of odor, if left to their own devices, hawthorns will send up unsightly shoots from it’s limbs. While the main limbs will gently weave their way to the sky and you have the time or $$ to spend on pruning, if left unattended over the years, these shoots are stick straight and show obvious neglect in the part of the landowners. Believe me, you won’t like the look. Then, there’s the odor. They do ‘smell’ when blooming. Stink would be a better word. Here’s an article I found about why... “When animal flesh begins to decompose it forms trimethylamine, a colorless gas with a strong, fishy, ammonialike odor. Research has found that the hawthorn flowers produce this same chemical. Traveling on air currents to reach pollinators near and far, this odor assures the pollination of the flowers, the setting of fruit and seed production, creating the next generation of hawthorn”. But it’s not pollinated by bees cuz they don’t like the scent but by flys and other insects attracted by dying ‘matter’. ☹️ NOW. To be fair to the tree, there are some which Do NOT stink when blooming. I was in the middle of researching this good news when I stumbled upon this HOUZZ discussion. All I would suggest is you do a bit a research into the exact plant you want to put by your back door, y’all, cuz you may have to dig it up and put it at the far end of your ‘north forty’ after the first time it blooms. PS if I find which is which, I’ll come back and post.

>As the species itself is naturally "pendulous" I doubt that it is any sort of cultivarThe plant shown here could have either been put on the market as a named form or as the typical plant. Similar plants being called cultivars are not hard to find in internet photos and elsewhere. >the weeping cultivars named above are much smaller than the speciesSpecimens being identified as 'Pendula' include one in Tacoma determined to be 74' tall during 1990 and listed by R. Van Pelt in Champion Trees of Washington State (1996, University of Washington, Seattle). A local known planting of 'Van den Akker', as identified for me by a member of the family who still propagates and sells the clone includes trees over 70' tall. It was grown originally by the father's nursery as 'Pendula'; the new name 'Van den Akker' is believed to have been first applied by T. Buchholz. Plants seen here labeled 'Green Arrow' show no obvious indication of being any more dwarf than these others. Common in Seattle, it is grown for its unique ornamental silhouette: most here are especially slender, gaunt, and strongly weeping, presenting such a wilted "Dr. Seuss" aspect that mistaking them for any other kind of tree (except weeping Lawson Cypress) is impossible. Such trees have been sold as 'Pendula', 'Strict Weeping', 'Green Arrow', 'Van den Akker' and the like --A. Jacobson, Trees of Seattle - Second Edition (2008)