If people hear that this or that plant likes to be rootbound, they're bound to repeat it and stand by their advice until the last gong clangs, even if they can't explain why they offered the advice. Root congestion is limiting - there is no way around that. Growing a plant tight can yield some results the GROWER favors, but no plant likes or prefers to be rootbound. If it did, Mother Nature would have arranged for roots to grow in tight little cubes and balls directly under the plant's stem, but that is not how plants grow. If some thought is given to why the advice is so often repeated, it becomes clear that the giver of the advice has decided you WILL be growing in a water retentive soil, and the only way to prevent the roots from suffering from soil saturation is to grow it so tight that the roots quickly use all water supplied, allowing air to replace the excess water so the root can function. IOW, the grower is willing to trade the limitations of root congestion for the limitations imposed by soil saturation. The lesser of 2 evils is still an evil. Instead of forcing your plant to suffer from root congestion, put it in a large pot (after root pruning) and in a soil that holds little to no excess water. You avoid both the stress of root congestion and the limitations imposed by a soil too water-retentive. Instead of having to choose one of the horns of a dilemma, you'll be able to avoid the bull entirely. You asked, "I think from what you are saying I can turn my baby loose and it will be fine do you agree??" There isn't a solid 'yes' or 'no' answer to your question. Certainly you're not going to harm any plant by giving its roots room to run if the soil and other cultural considerations are well within the limits of what the plant is genetically programmed to deal with. Things like growth rate and vitality are limited whenever the plant isn't happy with cultural conditions. As a grower, your only job is figuring out what is limiting your plant, and to the greatest extent possible, eliminating the limitations. Al

nooooooo !!! .. lol ... i have to admit.. i didnt read all the replies ... see link that i often use in the tree/conifer and shrub forums ... dealing with this is not limited to fruit trees ... so the rules are the same ... but the one thing i didnt see in the replies i read ... is anyone addressing actually what the understock is ... these fruit peeps choose their trees.. based onto only on the fruiting part itself.. but choose based on what is below.. they will have to tell you why.. and for what reasons ... and you can not.. predict what the understock is.. when buying a big pot.. at the bigboxstore .. for that reason ... and the fact that they are mailed to your front door at the appropriate planting time ... many of us prefer mail order ... read the planting guide.. and you will probably find out.. you dont need to dig a big planting hole.. unless you buy a really big tree.. and most tree peeps.. dont believe in instant gratification ... as big plants.. have big transplanting stresses.. and can take years to get settled in and get established... as compared to smaller plants ... which can take off like rockets.. all things properly done ... go small.. get understock appropriate to your area.. and get something sublime ... as compared to what the local guy or store.. throws in the parking lot.. and your rewards should be great ... now all i have to do.. is figure out.. how i ended up in the fruit forum .. lol ... good luck ... ken ps: another trick.. is to talk with a local orchard ... they plant trees every year.. and they know what will easily grow local.. and often offer trees for sale... at planting time ... basically bare root stock they are planting.. thrown in a pot until you stumble by and buy them.. so they havent been in the pot long ... at least my local one does .... Here is a link that might be useful: link

i wonder if anyone has ever recommended doing root surgery when the tree is leafless or dormant ... hmmmmm ... how many other roots were there.. how big is the tree ... i am no fan of the tap root being requisite .... if it could be cut to the first bend ... it wouldnt bother me.. if there were many others left ... especially of the plant was 4 feet or so ... it is.. IMHO.. just another root.. there is nothing magical about it ... pic below ... if i can do this to a 6 to 8 foot tree.. i dont see why you cant do the same .. obviously.. i slaughtered the tap root ken

My humblest apologies for my long posts. The firmness of the roots is a good thing. Be wary of disturbing the actual root mass unnecessarily--it just may cause more damage. I know someone who bare-roots her trees every time there may be a problem, and I've been doing my best to discourage this process (ahem. you know who you are ;) Ultimately and ideally, in a potted tree, you do want lots of fine roots for nutrient uptake as opposed to woody lignified roots taking up space, but if the roots are so fragile they are breaking off essentially spontaneously, then they are not viable anyway. pH does seem to be one of those topics that sets some people off for an unclear reason, but I now fall into to the camp of I-don't-really-care-about-it. pH management in *containerized* soils is different from the earth and the reason it is a PIA IMHO is b/c it is extremely dynamic. (Out of curiosity, what is your method for checking--is it pH paper or a meter?) Having said that, citrus do prefer a *slightly* acidififed soil, but they are not blueberries. Most tap water is going to be basic to some degree to keep contaminants from precipitating out, but since you've used bagged soil, there is a very high likelihood that there is a good portion of peat moss in your mix and therefore you've already got a slightly acidified soil. I'd leave that alone for now. Otherwise, you can add a light dose of slow-release fertilizer that is nitrogen-dominant, and since many sources of nitrogen are acidifying on their own that may help. Also, I've seen a brand of those slow-release granules that also has sulfur in it, and that might help over time. When you do fertilize otherwise, you can choose an acidifying formula that way too (I use Miracid for the most part). No, thorns do not *precede* growth. They *accompany* it and you should be seeing something besides just thorns if you really do have some sort of growth. Other possibilities are thorns that you missed previously since there were more leaves to cover then, actual new vegetative growth forming (doubtful if you're still seeing signs of decline like continued leaf loss), or the beginnings of massive pathologic stress-bloom. You're going to have to wait awhile before you see results--I had a tree in CHCs (stupidly) for over a year before I pulled that sucker out and rehabbed it, and it was easily 5 mos or so before I felt like I had made any progress with it whatsoever. The tree's stored energy is eseentially depleted and it has to have time to build that back up. Which is hard when it doesn't have many funtional roots and reduced leaf surface area. Something some speak of, but I don't do, is to prune it back significantly and reduce the canopy mass when you have had major root damage. The main reason I find this difficult is that often leaves will drop first from the inside of the canopy in this situation (older leaves), and then if you prune it back you're cutting off the rest of the leaves--shooting self in the foot while you're at it, lol. The tree needs maximal photosythetic area. Personally, I think citrus is hard to kill if you've got the basics down. It's easy for them to get into trouble, but I don't think they actually die that easily from stuff like this. So it's reasonable to keep trying with this tree. Branch dieback will be your guide, but even if the graft goes, the rootstock can survive--and then in a little while you have someplace where you can do your own grafting. How appropriate--lemonade out of lemons. Literally. Please keep us updated on your progress. Hopefully someone else will comment--where is tapla, bencelest, eyeckr, jackpines, citrusboy? Surely you gents can help us out here...oh wait, I know where they are--they're sick of my longwinded posts :)