Forgot to mention, my tree bloomed prolificly, dropped a bunch of tiny fruits, but still had a lot on the tree. Today, I removed 51 tiny fruits from the tree, leaving 5 remaining, the only ones that seemed to have grown at all (they are all about the size of a large "shooter" marble).

I'm hoping this will help the tree bounce back. Should I remove all the remaining fruit? Or should I wait to see if the tree puts on new growth first? If I wait, what is a reasonable time to wait (how long should it take the tree to put on new growth, supposing I have fixed my overwatering/wet feet/dead roots problem)?

Also, the tree is growing small thorns again. About the time I repotted it, I also clipped off all the thorns that I could find. Is it a good sign that I'm seeing thorns again? (My thinking is that the tree might send out thorns as protection for tender, new growth to come, but that could be just wishful thinking!)

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm a newbie to growing citrus and I need all the help I can get!

Hi Michelle,
I am going to make some assumptions here. If you feel that the plant was overwatered and you also found some damaged roots, it must have also been demonstrating some sort of symptoms like leaf loss. And once a tree has gotten to the point that it is showing signs of decline, then the stored energy and the vitality of the tree are significantly reduced--before you even moved to remedy it. If so, you can expect a prolonged recovery (translate--many months) with a bare-rooting and repotting--which it looks like you did since the soil appears very uniform in the picture.

In my experience, destroyed roots are't necessarily blackened and smelly, and often normal citrus roots are kinda brownish (tho seeing healthy white tips is a good sign). What I find to be important, outside of the obvious, is the *texture* of the roots--are the firm or are they mushy or hollow and threaded? Did *any* of the roots appear healthy when you repotted?

I would highly recommend the wicking, even tho your soil is fresh--the roots need as much O2 as they can get. Extra drain holes arent really going to help unless the container is an unusual shape that leads to extra water retention. You might also wish to water with a mild soution of 3% hydrogen peroxide--I have used approximately 3 Tablespoons in a liter water, with each watering. It can help kill organisms as well as produce extra O2.

I don't favor water meters--they don't measure moisture directly and therefore may not be totally accurate. What I find helpful is hefting the container--you'll quickly get a feel by weight.

I would remove all remaining fruit and blooms and allow the tree to conserve its energy. Citrus trees are often thorny--even when mature--but I would make sure that it isn't rootstock that you are getting thorns from. Otherwise, citrus will form the thorns *along* with new growth as opposed to preceeding it, and should not regrow from places you have clipped from.

Lastly, as we are coming up on true summertime, do make sure that you manage the soil temperature of your tree and keep the roots from getting too hot--you don't want the soil to go above about 85*F if you can avoid it. Basically you need to maximize all the conditions you can to promote recovery--water, heat stress, soil oxygen, sunlight exposure, etc. It may very well continue to lose leaves and possibly stress-bloom, but as long as you don't get lots of twig dieback and the limbs stay green, it is still salvageable.

Last comment--I used to expend energy to help a tree recover from a signficant insult, and I will still do it as an exercise in physiology (I have a couple I am re-habbing from CA's horrible winter freeze and another that is in compacted soil--and I bet someone is sounding the Nerd Alert, lol), but sometimes the recovery is so prolonged I will just replace the sick tree--it's not worth my time.

HTH.

RickJames, when you water with Hydrogen Peroxide, do you use that solution EVERY time you water, or just every so often?

Yes. It wears thin tho--I give it up after a while (I'm too lazy). You could also just use it occasionally.

rickjames,

Thank you so much for your thorough response to my request for advice. It was exactly what I was hoping for and helped put my mind at ease about my tree. Your assumptions were correct; there was a decline in the health of the plant before I repotted, manifested by leaf drop, dull and dry leaves, and what I assume to be bloom brought on by stress.

I made another inspection of the roots today, and on the few that I "unearthed", they appeared firm, although still that medium brown color. Some of them had very fine root hairs, about 1 inch long. They were so fine I almost didn't see them. I assume that's a good thing? When I repotted, a lot of the roots were brittle and just broke off in my hands. The ones I looked at today were more sturdy.

I made a trip to the dollar store and picked up two bottles of 3% hydrogen peroxide; I figure it couldn't hurt! I'm going to start using it when I water. Which brings me to another question, which I know from my research is a somewhat controversial topic, but I will ask anyway: am I doing harm to my tree by watering with my high ph (8 to 9) tap water? I've tried to remedy the ph with plain old white vinegar, but I need to use quite a bit in order to bring the ph down to about the 6 level. Could I have caused more harm by using the vinegar (I'd say it took a good 1/2 cup or more per gallon of water). Since repotting I've just used the tap water straight.

All of the branches are growing above the graft line, so I don't think I have rootstock growing, at least, I hope not. The thorns that are popping out now don't appear to be coming from the same spots. Was I right in my assumption (well, more like hope!) that thorns precede new leafy growth?

As far as soil temp, I know firsthand why it's important to manage that! Last year I attempted growing tomatoes in those large black plastic containers that landscape plants come in. I learned the hard way that it's all too easy to cook roots if you're not careful, or even aware of the risk. My tomatoes survived, but they didn't thrive, even after I remedied the situation. My lemon tree is in a white plastic pot, and it's easily moved (temporarily) to a shady spot if necessary.

I am convinced the tree is salvagable. Now I need to decide if I should wait it out and see what happens, ot "cut bait" and purchase a new tree. I'm leaning toward trying to nurse this one back to health, just to see if I can do it!

Thanks for all the good advice and for taking the time to help out a newbie like me!

Michelle

My humblest apologies for my long posts.

The firmness of the roots is a good thing. Be wary of disturbing the actual root mass unnecessarily--it just may cause more damage. I know someone who bare-roots her trees every time there may be a problem, and I've been doing my best to discourage this process (ahem. you know who you are ;) Ultimately and ideally, in a potted tree, you do want lots of fine roots for nutrient uptake as opposed to woody lignified roots taking up space, but if the roots are so fragile they are breaking off essentially spontaneously, then they are not viable anyway.

pH does seem to be one of those topics that sets some people off for an unclear reason, but I now fall into to the camp of I-don't-really-care-about-it. pH management in *containerized* soils is different from the earth and the reason it is a PIA IMHO is b/c it is extremely dynamic. (Out of curiosity, what is your method for checking--is it pH paper or a meter?) Having said that, citrus do prefer a *slightly* acidififed soil, but they are not blueberries. Most tap water is going to be basic to some degree to keep contaminants from precipitating out, but since you've used bagged soil, there is a very high likelihood that there is a good portion of peat moss in your mix and therefore you've already got a slightly acidified soil. I'd leave that alone for now. Otherwise, you can add a light dose of slow-release fertilizer that is nitrogen-dominant, and since many sources of nitrogen are acidifying on their own that may help. Also, I've seen a brand of those slow-release granules that also has sulfur in it, and that might help over time. When you do fertilize otherwise, you can choose an acidifying formula that way too (I use Miracid for the most part).

No, thorns do not *precede* growth. They *accompany* it and you should be seeing something besides just thorns if you really do have some sort of growth. Other possibilities are thorns that you missed previously since there were more leaves to cover then, actual new vegetative growth forming (doubtful if you're still seeing signs of decline like continued leaf loss), or the beginnings of massive pathologic stress-bloom.

You're going to have to wait awhile before you see results--I had a tree in CHCs (stupidly) for over a year before I pulled that sucker out and rehabbed it, and it was easily 5 mos or so before I felt like I had made any progress with it whatsoever. The tree's stored energy is eseentially depleted and it has to have time to build that back up. Which is hard when it doesn't have many funtional roots and reduced leaf surface area. Something some speak of, but I don't do, is to prune it back significantly and reduce the canopy mass when you have had major root damage. The main reason I find this difficult is that often leaves will drop first from the inside of the canopy in this situation (older leaves), and then if you prune it back you're cutting off the rest of the leaves--shooting self in the foot while you're at it, lol. The tree needs maximal photosythetic area.

Personally, I think citrus is hard to kill if you've got the basics down. It's easy for them to get into trouble, but I don't think they actually die that easily from stuff like this. So it's reasonable to keep trying with this tree. Branch dieback will be your guide, but even if the graft goes, the rootstock can survive--and then in a little while you have someplace where you can do your own grafting. How appropriate--lemonade out of lemons. Literally.

Please keep us updated on your progress.

Hopefully someone else will comment--where is tapla, bencelest, eyeckr, jackpines, citrusboy? Surely you gents can help us out here...oh wait, I know where they are--they're sick of my longwinded posts :)

The roots you unearthed look like they are/were viable.Are they still soft and pliable? A pic of the top of the tree would be nice.You may need to amend the soil to improve drainage and aeration. Also, be sure the tree isn't planted too deep. I like to see a "leg" or two where the roots begin at surface level. Otherwise,all of ricks advice is relevant as usual.