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Herbicide drift-an example

vics_gardenkeeper

16 years ago

I was looking at another forum about vegetables (beans are coming in nicely, thanks) and saw this comment that someone intentionally sprays broadleaf herbicide onto her neighbor's property, with a little giggle. So I guess we're not paranoid when we think we have "drift". Yikes

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/cornucop/msg0511185118315.html?3

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Comments (16)

riku
16 years ago
Embarrassing too as us Canadians are suppose to be so nice and polite and demurring ... that will teach us to be smug and believe our stereotype PR.
robin_d
16 years ago
Geez, I'm glad that person isn't my neighbor!

I nearly lost 'Maggie' when the neighbor got a little too rambunctious with either Weed and Feed or RoundUp. She was on our communal fence. She did recover though.
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Yeah, we definitely don't want to go the lawsuit route. It's a pain in the neck, and we frankly have enough on our plates right now with health issues without doing that. Like I said, we just want to send him a message that there are people watching. Maybe he is new to the job and has to learn the hard way that he must do his job responsibly. By the way, according to the state guy, there really are no regulations on these guys in Alabama regarding distance from homes they can spray (just schools and churches) which we think is bizarre. The thing that really bugs me is that our neighbors appear to have lost a couple of trees to this spray. And they didn't dare use their vegetables.....we had no idea what was sprayed. The spray was applied to peanuts, yet all their veges were above ground crops so didn't know if it could make a difference. Both of them have health problems, the wife is in danger of losing her eye sight. What a travesty if this turned out to be the last year she could enjoy the sight of flowers but had none because of an irresponsible person! But you are right and I hadn't been thinking of lodging a complaint with the FAA. Even if it goes nowhere, maybe it would get something on record. The state ag department is already working toward a fine for the guy. We are blessed that the spray should have no health effects. What bugs me is that it COULD have been something harmful like that and there are little kids living in the houses on either side of us. And what if.... Don't know if you saw the post....the ag guy said if you know that your plants have been hit with herbicide the best thing to do is immediately wash them down. If it has been even an hour or two, don't bother, the damage has been done. Under no circumstances should you fertilize for, I think he said, 3 weeks or more. The first things to go were large tender leaved plants (the angel trumpet and black and blue salvia, followed by Confederate Rose). Those plants that had thicker leaves were the last to show affects.
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Dawn, When they first started here many said it was too far north and the yields were low. I've seen the best looking cotton this summer that I've seen since they started growing it here. Taller and bushy and already getting ready to flower. When they started they had only a very short window to plant in. No chance for a replant here. Now I understand they have some varieties that germinate better in cooler soil. Some of the cotton this year was planted a lot earlier. I know when they started they would plant around June 1st. Now I heard most were done before June 1st. The Cotton Root Rot must be why they moved up here. I was told and know in several of the areas in the South Plains of TX they had to quit growing it because of something in the soil and the gins closed. Many jumped in and grew it when they started and then it tapered off. Last year acreage was way down. But as yields have picked up acreage is coming back some I hear. A spraying accident is a lot easier to take when the responsible person is truly sorry and it was an accident. Once in a while you will get the person who doesn't seem to care and obnoxious. You couldn't believe the way the people that worked for this sprayer talked to those that called. First it was obvious who was involved as we could see the plane taking off from and landing for refill at the airport 1/2 mile away. And then we all knew the farmer who farmed the field and he told us who the sprayer was. First there was the how do you know it was us? Then the you should expect that when you live next to a farm field. And then "the wind has been blowing and we are behind and can't wait for it blow out of the right direction and we have to make a living. Your garden is just a hobby. " I bit my tongue and went on. Not so sure i would today. The wind is blowing over 30 mph again at times and over 90. This is the third day in a row. Starting to think we are going to have another summer like last year. My plants had looked good till noon today. Checked them this morning and watered what I felt needed it. Last night my sister said they lost a plant in a container yesterday. They have theirs on the east side of their house so they have wind protection and shade. When I went out at noon all 3 container plants looked almost dead. I can't figure out why. Those I had sitting in cups in the containers but hadn't transplanted yet looked fine. I transplanted one of them to see how it will do. They were put in the containers about 3 days ago. The soil was moist. A few of the in the ground plants looked droopy also. I thought about spray as the worst ones were all in the same area. Even the ones in the ground. But not convinced that is it. Guess if someone would of sprayed in the wind it easily could of happened. Then while trying to do a few things I broke off another plant. Hasn't been the best week for me. I have got a lot of my planting done and getting things watered good. Supposed to cool off for a few days. The rain last night missed us again by a few miles. I was about to the point when I saw things after dinner to just call off the season. Probably as frustrating a two years I've ever had gardening. It has to get better. I dumped half of last year's mix out of the containers and mixed in new with it. The one I planted today I planted in all fresh MG regular mix to see if there is something wrong with the mix. I did add a handful of bone meal and a little of a mix of cottonseed, soybean and a few alfalfa pellets I had in a bucket. But have done that to every hole I've planted and no problems but in the containers and the plants right next to them. Jay
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Amy, That's a really good point, and in terms of what to do with suspect materials that might usually go on the compost pile, I've been composting them separately for about 10 years. I don't know what anyone else does, but when I have plants that are hit by herbicide drift, I don't put them in my normal compost pile. I put them in a pile further away from the house and garden, and I never really use that compost. I have the pile in a sloping area where rain runoff had eroded the soil and made a big gully. As the compost pile decomposes, I just leave it there and it is filling in the eroded gully (slowly but surely). I also put all our chicken manure/bedding from the chicken coops in that area instead of using it in the main compost pile because the herbicide carryover damage you've read about now has reached the commercial animal feed industry. For the most part, the herbicide carryover involves very a very specific type of herbicide (picloram, aminopyralid, clopyralid and others in that class) that is sprayed on grassy fields, pastures, park ground, golf courses, etc. to kill broadleaf weeds in grass. This class of herbicides has been contaminating garden soil, compost, animal manures, hay, straw, etc. since around the year 2000. Once the herbicide carryover became a widespread issue, I stopped bringing in much of anything from outside our property to use in the garden. I still buy Black Kow manure every now and then, because I have used it forever with no problem and I guess I'll still keep buying it until/unless a problem develops, but otherwise, no amendments get added to my garden unless I am positive they would not be contaminated---and the only way to be sure of that is to maintain total control over what goes into your garden. It is kinda of a PITA---I turn down many offers from ranching neighbors who ask if I want their horse manure or cow manure, and I always decline it because even if they don't use those herbicides, there is going to be some point where they purchased hay or bagged feed, and there is a chance those were contaminated. We all have to rethink how we do things now and be very careful not to bring contaminated materials into our gardens, and that includes being careful where we put plants killed by herbicide drift. I'd rather be overly cautious, than not cautious enough. However, a person could compost these plants if they choose. All they'd have to do is test the compost with a simple bioassay test before using it, but then if they found the compost was contaminated, they'd have to let it decompose some more or use it in a grassy area or even in a corn field. Much depends on how big the compost pile is compared to how many plants were killed by the herbicide drift. Just a couple of plants added to a very large compost pile probably wouldn't contain enough of the herbicide after composting to cause a problem, but "probably" makes me uneasy, so I'd just as soon not put those plants in my main compost pile. I'll link the MEN article that discusses how it was discovered that the herbicide carryover in one product in one state ultimately was traced back to a name-brand bagged animal feed. We had long known both in this country and in Europe that herbicide carryover, often nicknamed "killer compost", had become a problem, but this was the first time they had found that the animal feed itself was contaminated. One thing about all this that really bothers me is that we've known about it for well over a decade---almost a decade and a half---and, yet, not only does it continue to happen, but it also continues to pop up in new places---like in the animal feed. I keep waiting to see if this issue will hit the wood mulch industry (or gardeners using wood chips from municipal compost facilities or tree-trimming companies) because one of the commonly-used brush killer/stump killer products in this country is Tordon, and it contains picloram. I hope that never happens, but suspect that at some point it might occur. Dawn Here is a link that might be useful: Killer Compost Article from Mother Earth News
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Amy, I can totally relate to that. Kim, I have wondered if the use of Round-Up Ready crops contributes to drift issues since it means that specific herbicide is being used more heavily by growers growing RR crops since it won't kill their crops. For a long time, the conventional wisdom was that drift generally comes from less than a mile away, but I think it comes from much further away at times. I also think some of the ester formulations of herbicides are more volatile and are related to the increase in drift. I used to only see drift damage infrequently in our early years here, and there were a lot more active farmers and ranchers around us back then. Now I see it more often, but the folks still ranching and farming near us don't seem to use herbicides that much any more. I hardly ever see one of them out in a field pulling a spray tank behind the tractor. A lot of those farms and ranches that were working operations when we moved here have been replaced by homes, businesses, etc. although, of course, residents and business owners can use herbicides too. It does really stink. I usually can look at the degree of damage and guesstimate if I think a given plant will survive. I guess correctly most of the time. The more damage to the plant, the less likely that it will survive. Some of the plants that survived the first round of drift and that had started to grow new foliage now are dying. The first round likely didn't kill them, but I think the second one will. The second round of drift also killed the morning glories growing on the fence that I hoped would serve as a living wall and would take the herbicide hit and, therefore, save the plants. With the first round, the morning glories were too short and the drift apparently went right over them. This last round got them at about 5' above the ground. That was my first clue---I was walking past the garden on my way down to the mailbox and saw the damage on the MGs, and then I looked beyond them at the adjacent tomato plants and saw the new round of damage. In our early years here, I had more glyphosate damage, but in more recent years we have had more 2, 4-d damage. Either way, it is becoming more and more of an issue. One year we had damage from both appear in the garden at the same time. In every instance that I have had herbicide drift, it has hit plants on the south or the east side of the garden, but not on the west or the north. Technically, the person spraying the herbicide is both legally and morally responsible for the damage done by herbicide drift, but it is almost impossible to prove where the drift came from. Western Farmer had a great piece about herbicide drift last year. I'll see if I can find it online and link it. Dawn Here is a link that might be useful: Herbicide Drift
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carolfm
16 years ago
That is a mean, mean person. Even worse that they think it is funny.

Carol
cemeteryrose
16 years ago
My neighbor has wonderful roses - but the ones by the fence always suffered. He has a schoolyard next door, and finally caught the caretaker spraying herbicide. They had told him again and again that they didn't use herbicide. They lied.
Anita
nickelsmumz8
16 years ago
I once worked in an office with someone who thought she had a God-given right to wear perfume. Mind you, this was someone who'd fried her nose with Afrin for years and had an impaired sense of smell (so she really blasted on a lot of perfume). She knew the perfume bothered me and made me sick when I had a migraine, so she'd spray on extra perfume on days I had migraines. Nice, huh?
wichurana
16 years ago
I agree with Vics,Riku,Robin,Carol,and Cemetery Rose. It's hard to understand what causes some people to be such misanthropic miscreants. Are they a product of organic brain disease or abberant psychology?
Nickelsmumz, I work in a healthcare setting, among those who have the misfortune to be compromised by disease and illness. Hospital policy: Perfume and fragrances are forbidden. Thank you for sharing.

Ann
medusa_
16 years ago
To be fair to the poster it seems that he's talking about spraying nothing but weeds. Or did I miss something? There's plenty of yards around here where a sweep with roundup wouldn't be noticed--maybe it's one of those yards.
nickelsmumz8
16 years ago
Wichurana,

Thanks. I realize my post probably seemed out of context -- it was just another example of people being intentionally hostile by somehow poisoning the environment of another. I wish I could have worked in a workplace where fragrances were forbidden. No matter how pretty they smell, they can really do a number on me (and lots of people). People don't realize it's a real problem!

Then there are the people who poison the neighbors' pets, or intentionally blast loud music at odd hours. It comes in all forms. So sad and disturbing.
rjlinva
16 years ago
Some people need to get a hobby. When I hear of this stuff, I can only put my trust in karma.....

What are they thinking?

Robert
buford
16 years ago
Yes, but having weeds grow wild is a sort of of poisoning. I have a neighbor who has weeds that keep growing into my yard. I don't condone spraying in another persons yards, but if it's weeds, oh well!
gnabonnand
16 years ago
A few weeks ago, I though maybe my neighbor had accidentally sprayed some Round-Up on my summer phlox that's near our property line. Of course I didn't say anything, but just wondered in my own mind. Then this morning I was doing my routine careful sraying of some Round-Up on my bermuda grass to keep it away from garden areas and when I turned around, I saw our cat was following right behind me and then walking through my perennials as she would go in and out of my garden areas. Doah! I felt guilty for thinking my neighbor had been careless, when it was our own cat that was the culprit.

Randy
buford
16 years ago
I would be careful. If the cat licks the round up off, could get sick. Can you keep him in next time until the RU dries?
rjlinva
16 years ago
I'd like to share another story of chemicals. My parents' neighbor had hired some "ChemLawn" type company to do his lawn so he would have green, weed free, Frankenlawn....My parents' standard poodle would often visit the neighbors, and my parents noticed that the dog had developed blisters from walking through the lawn of the neighbor...When my parents told my neighbor about the blisters, my neighber immediately discontinued the lawn treatment. He is a wonderful human being. He loves the dog and was horrified that he had done something that had caused the dog problems. There is hope for humanity.

Robert
gnabonnand
16 years ago
Buford, definitely. I am going to keep her put up when I spray RU from now on.

Robert ... "Frankenlawn", lol. What great neighbors your parents have.

Randy
zeffyrose
16 years ago
Perfume---cigarette smoke chemical sprays-----YUK YUK YUK

I can't understand people who have their lawns treated and then let their little kids outside.---

"Up with Dandelions--Down with chemicals"---

Florence
anntn6b
16 years ago
On potential karma moment will be if the weeds he sprayed have roots that have grafted onto his plants. Shared spray experiences.

I do like the term Frankenlawn.

And my lawn, in places, is mostly weeds. So be it. But in spring, the weeds are where the lady bugs hang out until the roses' aphids are ready for munching. Something good about Hen Bane and other weeds.

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