Difference between American Elm and others?

15 years ago

I inherited property where my grandfather planted a couple of elm trees, probably about 50 years ago. While the elms all around are all dead, these are still standing. The bark does not look like Chinese, and there are no suckers or saplings nearby, which I have heard will happen with Chinese and Siberian elms. When I got the property last fall the leaves were just barely hanging on, but they did indeed look like elm. They were unhealthy, and looked like they had been eaten by something; sort of looked lacy.

I'd like to do whatever I can to save these trees. They have been long neglected.

The house I grew up in had two beautiful elms that succumb to DED more than 35 years ago. Is it at all possible that my grandfather planted disease resistant American Elm? How do I tell the difference?

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Comments (6)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
15 years ago
a picture of the bark .. and a leaf.. will probably get an ID from some of the experts here .... and that is where the differences will start to present themselves ...

once you have an ID ... then the sperts can speculate as to what is going on ...

plus .. please expand on this thought:

I'd like to do whatever I can to save these trees. They have been long neglected.

trees basically take care of themselves... what is making you think you need to help them ... if there are structural problems... perhaps a few other pix will help ...

good luck

ken
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lkz5ia
15 years ago
do they have leaves that are smaller than typical American Elm? Possible that they are Siberian elms.
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As mentioned earlier, there is already some resistance present in the American elm population. Several resistant trees have been identified (showing various degrees of resistance), and there are surely more growing in the wild that have not been identified. Evolution is defined as the change over time in the genetic variation in a population. If some heritable phenotype (characteristic) becomes more or less prevalent in a population, evolution has occurred. In the case of elm trees, resistance to DED has certainly become more prevalent, since such a large percentage of susceptible trees have died. So, evolution has occurred. In this case, it does not take very long, since the genetic variation for resistance was already present in the population. Several resistant cultivars are available, and they are being planted by homeowners and parks all over the place. Pollen from these trees will surely speed up the distribution of DED resistance into the wild populations. You are correct that susceptible trees reach reproductive age before they succumb to DED. It is possible that new mutations which confer resistance will arise in that segment of the population, but there is no telling how long that will take. Such an estimate would require a lot of information that is just not available. In any case, I suspect this path wil be much slower than the one facilitated by the widespread planting of the various resistant cultivars. WRT to the DED genome project, I suspect that is more likely to lead to treatments for susceptible trees, rather than the development of DED resistant trees. An interesting quote from the link above: "itÃ¢ÂÂs only a matter of time before most the elm trees are gone". I've got some news for you.....most of the elms are already gone! Alex
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I will have mine pruned up to about 12 feet before I let them begin their typical arching vase shape. I may go even higher as I see them develop a little more. I have "Liberty Elms," which may be a little more erect growing and less spreading. I think 5 feet it is a little low for an elm to start its division into its large ascending limbs. Without seeing what you have it is hard to give good advice, but if the tree is young and vigorous, as it apparently is, you can do some really radical pruning that may seem extreme, but as the tree grows it will quickly overcome the loss and start growing in a better shape. Maybe you could select the best and strongest limb that is nearest the center of the others and cut off or radically shorten the others. It may look like a real "hack' job for a while, but in the long run it may make for a better tree. One of my trees has a tendency to fork with one side somewhat stronger but deflected in the opposite direction by the lesser side of the fork. I have been cutting off the lesser side, even though it seems extreme and leaves the trunk a bit crooked. But the tree is growing fast and so far it seems that the crook to the right, and then the one to the left will hardly be noticeable as the tree grows bigger and develops a balanced crown. At about 12 feet I see the tree beginning to divide into a beautiful set of ascending branches. For my tree that is probably the height it will have unless it develops in a way in the next couple of years that makes me thing differently. Many of the elms that once lined our town streets had divisions of their trunks 15 to 20 feet high. --Spruce
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The property that used to be my Grandfather's place has some 100 year old plus elms, all americanas. We are in the Gulf of St Lawrence, so get LOTS of wind and freezing rain. They have stood up well. Some have died of the DED, but two are thought to be resistant. Since the current owner is injecting them with fungicide and has used Dutch trig, it's not known for sure if they are resistant, but their buddies started dying off fast and these two appeared to wall off small amounts in the crown. I have some of their seedlings, but suspect they are pollinated by their non resistant buddies that survive with treatments. A kind soul on this board has sent me seeds from his resistant trees, and two have made strong seedlings. It will be fun to plant them next to the Elmwood 18 seedlings and see what pops out. I still have my grandfather's woods, and there are elms there, so I am hoping to introgress resistance genes into the population in the woods. I haven't actually seen a Valley Forge, only its seedlings, so can't comment.
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milehighgirl
Original Author
15 years ago
Last fall when I first went to the house ALL of the trees needed much care. They hadn't been pruned in decades, several were completely dead. The fruit trees were pathetic with much bark stripped off.

The elms had much dead wood and needed pruning, but the leaves themselves were eaten away like little caterpillars had munched the tender parts between the veins. The only healthy, large leaves were way up on the tree, which of course I could not reach even with a tall ladder. The trees are not vase-shaped like Valley Forge elms.

I would like to be proactive in spraying for whatever is eating the leaves up. I thought at first it was Japanese Beetles, but now I doubt that. It seems that Japanese Beetles have probably not even reached the Rockies yet.

As soon as the trees leaf out I'll take some photos.

Any idea what I should spray for and when?

Thanks so much!
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kman04
15 years ago
If you could take photos of the bark of the trees, both a closeup and one showing some of the branching that could help narrow it down quite a bit. Also, if you could get photos of a twig with the buds, especially closeups of the buds, that could possibly lead to a positive ID even without leaves.
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Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
15 years ago
That sounds like elm leaf beetle, who love American elm. Denver has a program for it, if they are in the ROW you are in luck. Contact me offline and I'll put you in touch with who you need to call.

BTW, the likely choice is Siberian elm or American elm if the bark does not look like Chinese.

Dan
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Embothrium
15 years ago
If a distinctive species like Siberian elm may be possible to tell by leaves or branching habit. Otherwise, species of elms generally similar to one another are distinguished using their winged fruits as well as their leaves etc. As with willows it may be necessary to study the buds, flowers and fruits of a particular specimen during the winter and spring when these are present, and then return later in summer to look at the fully formed leaves. In addition to the similarity of some species to one another rather often making precise identification of elms peculiarly difficult a number of hybrids between them have been planted in the past.

A local tree expert suspects a large-leaved, spreading coarse form of "American elm" accounting for at least a few large surviving examples out here may actually be hybrids with red elm.
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Difference between American Elm and others?

Comments (6)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

lkz5ia

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milehighgirl
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Difference between American Elm and others?

Comments (6)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

lkz5ia

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milehighgirlOriginal Author

kman04

Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)

Embothrium

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milehighgirl
Original Author