>I'd prefer Felicia to Cornelia since Felicia, I've heard, has stronger scent? or is that not true? I have a couple Felicias that are babies now. (like I said in my previous... I'm not sure if they're doing well or not. They may just be young?) Hi Aimee, Rogue Valley lists them both with three "f's" out of a possible four for degree of fragrance. Francesca is for sure a beautiful rose, so good luck with it! If you ever do consider Cornelia too, well, I've read a few comments that its fragrance wafts on the breeze. >Both Kathleen and Mutabilis (which I guess are similar to Bermuda's Kathleen) are listed as shade tolerant... Neither one makes it to the ARE shade tolerant list, though they do sell both. (The person running that nursery is extraordinarily knowledgeable so I'd take his advice over the opinions of others.) >I'm open to Darlow's Enigma, too. I want something that does WELL there... otherwise I might want to try a shrub or something more tolerant? I've seen so many gorgeous pictures of this very fragrant rose that at one time I wanted it too. But it was a turnoff to discover that it is supposed to be unusually thorny. >I really like camellias too. Mary, that was one of my other ideas. So if the roses won't do well, I'd rather go with something that will do better. Your roses are probably going to do fine, with the right selections, I'd guess. On the other hand, with more thought as to the whole picture, you might want a little greater diversity in the front yard and some things with a bit of a heavier shinier leaf look to them. Two books to help you form your own landscaping ideas: House and Garden Book of Country Gardens," by Charles Quest-Ritson, and Landscape with Roses" by Jeff Cox. Consider Japanese maples if you end up looking for more trees. I never tire of looking at ours (three kinds here). >I have a small camellia roughly in that spot now, it's getting a little bit of burning on the leaves, but overall seems happy, so I'm guessing as it gains maturity, it will be able to tolerate sun better. I don't think you ought to generalize the experience for a single camellia (japonica?) to all the many others you might consider for the same spot. Some varieties aren't too picky about how much sun and sun protection they have, and some are very picky. The variety in that spot is just probably one of the pickier ones and is wishing it were in a slightly shadier spot or were getting better watering. >Mary, how do you mean "for the front walk"? sorry, I can't figure out which part you mean exactly., do you mean along the sidewalk coming from the front door, on both sides...? (before it does a right angle?) Edging each side with shishigashiras would work well for the entire distance, I'd guess. >I'm just having trouble with the part that's right up next to the front of the porch (the foundation) There are an unending number of potential choices and combinations, all of which would make a nice inviting entrance for your house. It all depends on what you personally like best. If it were my house, I'd opt for some Bonanza camellias spanning the front next to the porch, with perhaps a rose climbing the two pillars where you have two MAC's planted now. >I'm seriously considering putting a tea (probably Archduke Charles) in the front middle area. I think that one is a china, but it should still do quite well in your climate. Gorgeous! If you're hoping for the evergreen quality that many of the tea roses have you'd just have to ask locally about that. >I also was thinking about pillaring a rose, like you said. but I'm on the fence. It would be great if one of the roses already on my short list was one that could be pillared. In seeing some more pictures now, I'd suggest the pillar for a larger planting area than what you have right in the front. The height of your climbers next to the porch might be enough for that area; too many focal points amounts to not having any. A pillar might make a really nice focal point in your side yard though. I'm not sure which roses are on your short list-- I might not have seen that list anywhere. Anyway, it wouldn't hurt to post them all again in a very organized fashion. Ideally, include a division as to front yard/side yard/back yard plant intentions, assuming you've taken the ideas that far. It also would be very helpful to actually make it into a much longer list, listing first the names of the roses you've already purchased/planted in those yard areas, along with a dotted line to separate the ones not yet bought but that you're considering for future purchase in those same particular yard areas--with all three yard areas totally separated by lots of space and double dotted lines. You are doing enough stuff all at once there that it is easily confusing to try to recall everything you might have mentioned somewhere sometime in different posts now, and this is the very most basic information that anyone wanting to offer suggestions needs to have. There's also a benefit to forcing yourself to organize your own information: it's not just a benefit to your readers, but you yourself can do a better thinking job with the information, once you've organized it enough to have it ready at your fingertips. Best wishes, Mary Here is a link that might be useful: A shade-tolerant rose resource

Oh my. What is a passionate rose lover like you doing in that glacial hell hole? Reading about your endeavors has exhausted me and I haven't even lifted a shovel. I admire your grit and determination, but would love to see you rewarded with thousands of blooms on your rose bushes for all your hard work. I bet they could use engineers in zones 7 to 10!

I'm a little confused, some of these are not entirely tea, let me know if the noisette / china hybrids should be reported on elsewhere. A Mme Antoine Mari - no sign of mildew, occasional bs exclusively on old leaves. 2 years old now General Schablikine - as Mme Mari. Beales 'Anna Olivier' - not a spot on it all season - first year rose, still tiny Isabella Sprunt - ditto (if the blooms didn't lose form so fast this would be my perfect yellow rose) Clementina Carbonieri - ditto Mme Jules Gravereaux - ditto, except 4ft tall, not tiny. Duchess D'Auerstadt - ditto, 6ft up it's arch. No blooms but immaculate. Lamarque has been immaculate the whole summer and has taken off like a racehorse in its pot - it's well over 6ft tall. Destined to grow over an arch onto a warm wall. I love, love, love it. Still, have to see what the damp dank winter does. Perle d'Or, small, first year, spotless. B Reve d'Or has had a touch of bs on the long branch that dangled in the undergrowth - once propped up that disappeared. No sign of mildew. Comtesse du Cayla in a pot mildewed, the one in the ground did not, so I think it's an artefact of water supply rather than the rose. Lady H - blackspots a bit when unhappy; i.e., I haven't watered it enough. Never mildews. Sanguineua - occasional spots, no mildew - in desperate need of a bigger pot, so factor that in. Mutabilis, never mildew, will bs and shed and regrow leaves rapidly. No more than say, 10%. Isabella Nabonnand - needs a new pot, some bs, but it's been swamped by an ambitious euphorbia so that might be part of it. Maman Cochet and Maman Cochet white - these leave me this autumn to their new up the road home. Both had a teeny touch of mildew and bs, but I think that was lack of water related. Incidentally, they ball like it's their job. They have excellent sun and air flow too. General Galleni is about 6 inches high in his pot and not doing much. Had a touch of mildew when in shade early this spring. Beale's 'Archiduc Joseph', tiny, had a touch of bs early - again was shaded. Souvenir de Leonie Viennot. Had a little mildew its first spring and autumn, in a pot. Clean so far this year, apart from limited bs on old leaves. It bloomed like a trouper in my hottest,driest spot. C Crepuscule mildews for me, and has done so lightly but unremittingly since it first leafed out. I am not in love with it atm, really hope it grows out of it. it is in the more moisture retentive area of the garden so I don't think it's a dry root issue, unfortunately. Alexander Hill Gray, ditto, also it balls, ugh. No bs though. Le Vesuve - doesn't mildew, does BS periodically. Don't love the effect of bare thorny canes frankly. It does bloom its socks off though.

I haven't had Teas for that long but they are definitely amongst my best roses. In my hot, humid climate (10b), my favourites so far are: 1. Rosette Delizy - I think this one is my best rose overall. I love the growth and sheer number of blooms. I don't have any problems with balling and they only burn a little on very hot days, which doesn't really matter to me as there are new blooms opening all the time. No disease and fast growing. The blooms don't nod and last ages in a vase for me. 2. General Gallieni - I don't think many people love this rose but it's imperfection is the key to its beauty for me. You never know what you will get! I love the look of the blooms on hot days, where they look like they have been painted with watercolours. Doesn't ball or burn at all for me. Took this pic not long after it arrived as a tiny spindly bare root a few months ago, now it's 5ft high and rising! 3. G Nabonnand - some days it's my favourite but the blooms aren't as tough as the others so it suffers a little in the heat. Beautiful leafy shrub though and always in bloom, like everyone says. I think it has nice perfume too. 4. Duchess de Brabant - I didn't like this one much to start with but it's growing on me! Love the perfume and the number of blooms. Gets a bit of black spot here but nothing serious. 5. Climbing Devoniensis - wow, what a climber! It's my most vigorous climber by far. Actually I'm a little scared of it. My favourite perfume from all the Teas. Also gets a little black spot here. 6. Anna Olivier - mine is still young but it's graceful and has soft full blooms. No disease, not as fast growing as others but it's slowly making a nice full shrub. 7. Baronne Henriette de Snoy - not 100% sure about the growth and how the bush will shape up, it's a bit branching and angular and sparsely foliated at the moment. I'm hoping it will improve. Love the full pretty blooms though. 8. Reve d'Or - I don't even own it yet but I love it! It's on order! I've admired the mature bushes at the rose garden for ages, I can't wait to find a spot for it. 9. Lady Mary Fitzwilliam - sneaking this early HT in as it grows like all my other Teas - vigorous, leafy and healthy. I guess I can't be sure the rose I have is Lady Mary Fitzwilliam, given the contention, but I think it could be. Never balls, never burns. 10. Mrs B R Cant - wasn't too impressed with this one until I fell in love with the reverse of the blooms! So pretty (and huge!) She is sprawling at the moment and may get too big for her spot. Not as floriferous as others for me but very good blooms for picking. 11. Souv de Pierre Notting - here this rose loves the heat. The hotter, the better. I don't have a problem with the brown ruff of outer petals unless it rains. Last very well in the vase and an interesting shape. Love the tinge of pink to the golden blooms. Healthy but a little less vigorous than others I have. 12. Marie van Houtte - I adore this rose but it's a monster! Beautiful blooms that I prefer to most other pink/yellow combinations. Nice tea perfume too but it's getting too big for its spot sadly. Should be higher up my list, I just forgot about it. Ones that haven't impressed are Monsieur Tillier (blooms fry instantly and are tiny, so disappointed with this one), Francis Dubreuil (likewise), the imposter Noella Nabonnand (floppy wet rag blooms here that don't last) and White Maman Cochet (balling a bit, slow growing for me, not many blooms so far). I've ordered loads for next year so I'm sure my list will change! I'll be adding Mrs Dudley Cross, Tipsy Imperial Concubine, La Vesuve, Comtesse Riza du Parc (whatever it really is - Dr Grill? Mme Charles?), Souv de Therese Lovet, Souv d'un Ami, Mme Jules Gravereaux, Triomphe du Luxembourg, Etoile de Lyon, Archduke Charles, Duchess d'Auerstadt, Marachal Niel, Octavius Weld and Lady Roberts. Now I just have to make more room! A Tea I'd love to add one day is David's Dilemma.