Merit application as preventative

16 years ago

The arborist came by and gave me an estimate this week and one of the things he suggested was the application of Merit - Imidacloprid - for three trees. One of them is a Pin Oak that had 1/2 it's roots severed.

I cringe at the mention of systemic insecticides but understand their use to prevent and eradicate severe pests. I just wish there was a viable alternative.

There is no sign of pest damage on the tree and even the lowest branches that didn't have leaves at the end of last summer are budding. He pointed out that there are major roots on the unaffected side of the tree. He wants to apply Mycorrihaze Fungi and a balanced fertilizer to stimulate root growth.

I put a call in to ask if there's an alternative to Method but if not, I don't want to use it right now. I'm waiting for a call back.

Would you do the same if you were me and were concerned about pesticides? Method in particular is noted for my counties as being controlled to prevent contamination of groundwater and our aquifers.

Thanks all. :)

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Comments (6)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
16 years ago
where are these trees???

if they are in your lawn ... do you fert your lawn?

i would suggest that they do NOT need any further fertilizer ... if you are fert'ing your lawn

and if you mulch your lawn clippings... i question the need for further fungi ...

and unless there is a known problem to fix.. i would suggest that all chemicals be avoided ...

i would question all of this.. and would also question whatever other info he gave you .. since you say he came for other reasons ...

get at least 3 local opinions .. and ours.. before you make any decisions

good luck

ken
Embothrium
16 years ago
The main problem this tree has it that it has lost half(!) of its roots. This is an excellent way to kill a tree, by throwing it out of balance both in terms of physiology and physical anchoring. No amount of fertilizer or pesticides will compensate for this. If you have this party out again, ask them how, specifically, the fertilizer is going to enable the tree to replace half of its roots in a short period of time. Has the soil there or the leaves of the tree been tested and found to be deficient in nutrients? If the tree needs fertilizer, it will certainly help it to be given an effective application (or several). But if it's now going to go into a decline from losing half its roots (a definite possibility) or blow over in a storm, fertilizer will not save it.

And ask him by what specific means is an application of the recommended pesticide product at this time going to produce a benefit. You want to be hearing about a particular pest being present or certain to appear on your tree, and how a preventative strike is the preferred method.

Here spray services have a history of selling by-the-calendar, routine, blanket pesticide applications. Would anyone go in and have heart surgery every year, because it was the first of March? Pesticide applications should always be made only in response to a specific set of circumstances that demands that they be used, in preference to all other approaches.
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Hi neighbors, Wbfair, I second gryd's advice, and I like his links too, fwiw. That said, it sounds like you have routinely fertilized in the summer without trouble, even though everyone here will tell you that you are just asking for trouble (either burning the lawn, or encouraging fungus or too much topgrowth when the roots can't handle it, or whatever). I tend to agree with all of that advice, but if you haven't had problems in the past, well I think that is a significant factor too, and scotts recommends summer fertilizing all the time, though maybe more to level out the cash flow, but that is another story... And besides, it makes me think that either you have an irrigation system or you just stay on top of the watering during summer. Either of those things would explain a lot. Anyway, the time to put down Merit in CT is now or in the next couple of weeks. If your soil is moist (as I imagine it is given all of the rain that we have been getting) you might consider putting it down as soon as your grass dries out tomorrow or Sunday in anticipation of the rains we are supposed to get on Sunday afternoon. One concern is that those rains look like they might be very substantial, and you don't want the stuff to just run off into the gutter rather than being absorbed into the soil. That's the significance of the recent (every 3 or 4 days or so over the last 3 weeks) rains - they have probably made your soil very receptive to absorbing more moisture, and fast, before starting to run off. You may know this, but just in case, you can see how this works by wetting a damp sponge and a dry one - the damp sponge will start absorbing the water right away, the dry sponge will let a lot of water run off until it starts to soak in. Actually, I guess you don't have to do the test since I'm sure you have already experienced that if you have ever washed dishes. Your soil, right now, is probably the damp sponge. Ideally you want to water the stuff in with 1/2 inch of water after application. For all I know we could get 2 inches on Sunday. If that fell on dried out soil, most of your application would be running into the storm sewers. But since your soil is telling the rain to "bring it on," it seems to me that the worst case would be that the merit immediately gets washed into the soil so deep that it ends up below the root zone, and though I'm no expert, that seems very unlikely to me. First, I would think that fast, heavy rains would immediately start to be absorbed by the soil, but would start to run off if they continue at a rate faster than the soil can absorb it, thus slowing the leaching process, and I would think the first rains would have started to bury the imidacloprid by this point given our damp soil, and so that the imidacloprid would already have been watered in before the runoff started. Second, FWIU imidacloprid has some "sticking power" in the soil, unlike nitrogen... ...which come to think of it makes this seem to me like an ideal time to apply the stuff since synthetic ferts are not generally recommended this time of year: by applying during a heavy rainstorm you can expect some of the nitrogen to leach out. Not run off, but leach out. And not a lot with just one rain on a damp soil, but still maybe just the right amount so as not to overfertilize the grass while you are trying to apply the right amount of grub control in line with the application rates listed on the bag. Just curious, at what rate (pounds per thousand feet) does the bag recommend applying this stuff? That would help in figuring out how much nitrogen you would be putting down. And what are the sources of the nitrogen (listed under active ingredients)? Whew, I'm sorry that was so long winded. If I got something wrong there hopefully someone else who could stand to read the whole thing will chime in. Paul P.S. I failed to mention this, but a major reason I would try to take advantage of this rain is that we have had so much of it in the last month that I would be very reluctant to irrigate. For one thing, it is a waste of water. But I also really want to let the grass dry out at its first opportunity because I am afraid of fungus, and all of this rain has encouraged the roots into a shallow growth habit for too long now, and though there is no quick fix for that now that root growth has slowed, I don't want to encourage that any further.
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greenfreak
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks guys. :)

Ken, I'm sorry for being presumptuous about the familiarity of my problems - I posted quite a bit in another thread about these trees. I haven't fertilized anything, we just moved in in November. Previous homeowner didn't mulch clippings and had them taken away. The Pin Oak is sandwiched between a driveway and a brick path so there's not much else growing there. As far as getting opinions goes... that's what I'm doing. :D

Bboy, I went by their office tonight and told them to just do the pruning and removal of some privet and arborvitae that are blocking corner/driveway views for now. Your comments make a lot of sense - which is why I questioned them in the first place as far as what is being treated. I did get the - apply yearly in spring thing. None of the trees they want to treat are showing signs of pests. They are a Youngii weeping birch, an American Holly (non fruiting) and the Pin Oak.

So what I'm reading here is if we're trying to give that Pin Oak a shot in the arm to make up for the loss of roots - that none of these applications, not even the fungii, are going to help?

Ok... Saving myself some time and money here. Thanks. :)
Embothrium
16 years ago
Just ask them to spell out what the treatments they are offering are supposed to do. What you want to hear, in each instance, is by what mechanism or process will the treatment assist this particular tree.

Like others of the same species Young's weeping birch is an aphid magnet in my mild winter climate. If you have the same problem there a dormant spray applied to kill overwintering sucking pests (such as aphids) could be quite worthwhile. Here European birches and Norway maples often get so much honeydew (sugar secretions) on them during hot, dry summer weather they look oiled.
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
16 years ago
you said: Ken, I'm sorry for being presumptuous

i have no idea why you are apologizing .. and i was just trying to help ... so if you are sensing something between the lines.. note my typing style.. and be sure ... that there is nothing between the lines.. lol

think of trees on a continuum .. reaching for a century or two .. and understand.. that there really isnt much you need to do for them ...

they have a multitude of defenses .. and really dont need our help ...

and finally .... think of a tree as twice as big below ground as above ground [perhaps an exaggeration ]... and give me odds on someones actual ability to put a product where a feeder root is ... not those big roots near the trunk .. i mean the feeding tips.. that are most likely half way across the street or the neighbors lawn ...

the tree may fail due to the root damage.. so be it .. and that may be.. in the 2 century continuum ... NOT in your lifetime .... if and when it does .... use the money to remove it .. rather than using it on foo foo applications [read that profit making for the seller] ...

in my world .... spend once.. dont spend once on questionable fixes.. and again.. when it fails anyway ...

have a great day ..

ken

PS: if it is close to the house... and the roots taken off are away from the house.. and the prevailing winds are toward the house ... i would remove if there is a chance it can fall onto the house ... oak is great firewood and great woodchip mulch ... this spring might be the time to plant a replacement or two ... so that in 5 years.. if it has to be removed.. you have a leg up on a new one ...
Embothrium
16 years ago
Roots on fully developed trees are usually bigger than tops, actually. The syndrome associated with excessive drastic removal of parts of mature trees is a decline due to the tree's energy budget being thrown out of balance. It's like the sinking of the Titanic, it's slow but the thing may still go down in a comparatively short time.

Merit application as preventative

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

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Merit application as preventative

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

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greenfreakOriginal Author

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