Woody....I have had those sickly tomatoes some years. Seems to me, no matter how well you take care of them, some years, that is what you get. I need to get a photo of the two measly little tomato plants we have this year. Foliage looks great, but they are about 2 feet tall with a hand ful of tomatoes each. I will have to do better next year and hope for more sun, less rain. As I think I already mentioned, the brugs didn't work out for my benign neglect style either. [g] Gardenbug....amazing that you have such a large garden but weeds look the same in your garden beds as they do in our garden, just more of them I guess. I don't have that burdock, I don't think. Has that got a taproot? You must have some great soil to grow weeds that well. :-) What you call twitch grass doesn't look like the perennial grass weed we had. We had a grass with long white roots, that the more you pulled it, the more of it you got. Every little bit of broken root you left in the soil would be a new plant. One year we made the mistake of rototilling to get rid of it, before we realized we couldn't have done anything worse. The only thing that stopped that grass weed, was smothering it for a year. I was actually getting ready to ask on the forums what people's experience has been with flagstone paths with thyme and other creeping plants. I love that look when it is weed-free and I don't want to create a big job for myself. One of my problems with that approach is that I have clay soil and thymes don't like me unless it is in a raised bed. I had the idea that the only way to really have that work is if you place all the plants like 3 inches apart through out the entire walk so they will grow in quickly and suppress the weeds. If you have a long walkway, that would be a lot of plants. Expensive. Also, not sure how it works in the shade, in clay. Not a lot of plants that can grow in those conditions between pavers. With the clematis, my one clematis, doesn't look that great after it finishes blooming either but it is in an out of the way area that I am not always looking at. Any chance you could cut the foliage back to the ground after blooming and still get flowers the next year, and a fresh crop of foliage for this year? I thought there was at least one group of clematis that grow and bloom on new wood. I suppose that is giving yourself another job though. I will try to take a photo of our veggie garden pathways that have the fabric on them and see what you think. I've done that some years with the veggie starts never making it into the beds. Very sad. :-( But life is full of twists and turns and the best laid plans of mice and men.... Well...I hope you can come up with a few things to change for next year over the winter, that will make you feel you are able to keep up more. Other than inviting all the Idylls up to get things ship shape...I can't think of more ideas. lol IU6? [g] Hey, we could all take a turn. :-) [Kathy...looking over the photos...I was wondering how did you plot the curve in your front walk, hose? It came out really nice. :-) pm2

redsox, I am married, with a teenage daughter, having a full time work, and taking an online collage class. I leave home about 7:20am and come home about 5:40pm, then cook, clean, study, etc. My gardening time is mainly for a weekend if I don't go out, and a little bit here and there after cooking & finishing a dinner during a weekday if I can squeeze some time. What I do for roses are: Water (my hubby's hobby) No-spray Organic fertilizer twice in a year Deadhead Pruning if they get too big Plant OGR I think one of the important thing is how you take the gardening. To me, I am busy, and I like to enjoy the gardening, I have other interests and like to spend some time for them, I can not spend too much money, and I do not like to be stressed out. Therefore I plant the roses that will do good in my area with a minimum care. There are so many different varieties of roses that will meet my liking. I am not sure how old your children are, and maybe you can teach them the enjoyment of gardening by turning them into free garden slaves. :)

Hi Carol I tried googling the poster you mentioned and nothing came up - in fact, nothing remotely rose related came up, though there were some fun family dinner table conversations to state your "rose" of the day and "thorn" of the day. If you can find a link, you might want to start a new thread on this topic, since people might not find it at the bottom of this one. Resurrecting this one gives the chance to respond to some responses I'd missed back when. Yep, thorns wedged under nails are a nightmare, and once sent me to the urgent care center to get it removed when it got full of pus and infected. My twins were little at the time, so I got to prep them for how mommy had to have the doctor do something owie and she was going to be brave and not even cry (much). They seemed impressed, but it doesn't take much when you're two. All of you that garden in protective gear are of course wise, though I've found that rose thorns can slash you through most clothing if persistent. I remember a rose cane getting stuck under my shirt at pruning time (probably the sneaky octopus Teasing Georgia). THOSE were scratches I was glad not to have to explain to folks at work. Littlelizzy - if anyone asks about the scar, you can say it wasn't suicide but cold-hearted murder attempts by a rose - hey, they're living creatures too! I envy those of you who are careful enough to hold roses barehanded without mishap. I can do it for a few moments, but I'm easily distracted when gardening, and disaster is always looming. And Beth, that brings up an interesting point about rose thorns - sympathies on all the blood, BTW. Have any of you found that rose thorn punctures seem to bleed a lot longer than other types of pokes and injuries? I'll have a rose cane thwack me in the arm and wipe away blood from what seems like a small injury. Then a few moments later, there'll be a pea-sized swelling of blood that trails down my arm. Wipe that away, and it's back a minute later. This can go on for 10 minutes or more at times. I wonder if it's something related to the wedge shape of the thorns, that something that looks relatively innocuous is much deeper or wider than it looks. Regardless, it's one of the necessary hazards of rose gardening. Seil - it's both encouraging and discouraging that these hazards are of my own doing. The positive is that I choose to rejoice that thorns have roses and put up with them for the flowers' sakes. The negative is that I'm doomed once the roses grow up to full height, since I plant everything much closer than custom or common sense would dictate, and I am reduced to a weird weaving stepping around the few tiny open spaces available come fall. No wonder the thorns are out to get me - I've asked for it. Cynthia

Here is advice from Paul Zimmerman's blog "Roses Are Plants, Too". This method is specifically for use on plants that are not dormant : "Wait for a cloudy day or do it early in the morning before the sun hits the roses. The reason is the combination of sun and lime/sulfur will burn leaves. Spray the lime/sulfur on the roses at a mixture of 1 tbs per gallon of water. Don't use a spreader/sticker or anything else with it. Just the lime/sulfur and water. I like using a hose end sprayer so I can really soak the plants well. Wait 15 minutes then wash it all off with clean water from the hose. That's it! The lime/sulfur will quickly kill of any fungal spores in the garden and knock down an impending infection. I've been doing this for years and years with great results. The only downside is sulfur does smell a bit but it soon goes away." Here is a link that might be useful: Paul Zimmerman's advice on using lime/sulpher spray