In zone 6a or 5-4 they are crown hardy and grown as dieback plants like HTs. Here, our lows recently have been around +6, and these that I grow or observe were cane- or tip-hardy: Lav. Lassie, Kathleen, Penelope, Cornelia, Belinda. Also Kathleen was easily hardy at zero last time that happened (only HMsk I had at the time.)

thank you Michaelg.
I had Cornelia completely freeze- I think I lost all the plants of that. Francesca is coming back from the ground. Bishop Darlington and Rostock and Pax froze to about half or less. My Nymphenburg, Lavender Lasssie and Danae are on top-they had minimal damage. Was this the sudden cold or can they not take that kind of temps? I thought zone 7 went to zero or something like that?

patricia

Well, plants have to prepare gradually for winter, and you may never again have 4 degrees in November. Maybe they were still in active growth shortly before that. If it were me, and I liked the roses, I'd call it a fluke and replant. I've read here about people growing them in zone 4 Minnesota as dieback shrubs. Maybe Cornelia would be questionable, given your experience last winter.

My garden's a bit warmer than Michael's. But mine sees the same temperature swings.
On my Hmusks and most other roses, I see damage if I fertilize heavily through summer and into fall. All that lush fall growth can't take fast fall/early winter freezes. My winter damage has happened more after wet falls than after early cold.
This may not help at all in the wet northwest, but it might be something to look at in terms of drainage and fertilizer regimines that might help you tweak your roses to fit your growing conditions.

One thing that might help you -- Think of water flowing down hill. Picture where in your garden it would flow -- and where it will pool. Cold moves in the same way.

We didn't have the DEPTH of cold that you did, but our coastal Southern California area DID experience record-setting, crop-damaging cold in January. Roses for the most part survived untouched, but many of the areas old tropical and sub-tropical plants were devastated.

We were away from home when it occurred, so there was no chance to prepare. Though, forewarned, I had moved all of our orchids into the house.

In our garden, brugmansias and plumerias at the BOTTOM of our hill were hit hard. The plumerias lost several inches, and the brugs looked like they'd been splashed with battery acid. We lost one young plumeria completely.

Similar plants at the top of the hill were unaffected, and the top brugmansias never stopped blooming.

We are clearly living in a time of global climate change, when the old established patterns can't necessarily be trusted year after year. So in your place, if I were going to replant cvs that died at the bottom of the hill, I'd move 'em to the top of the hill.

YMMV of course. :-)
Jeri

Yeah, in Florida a lot of the citrus is grown in rolling country. They use huge wind machines to blow the cold air out of the hollows on still, frosty nights.

Still, I think the key fact could be that Patricia had what should be the January low in November. Even though the West hasn't been warming like the rest of the country, that has to be a huge aberration.

It was a very odd winter. I lost Nymphenburg. Lavender Lassie almost. Of course I'm 5a so colder. But many of my oldest roses were affected. Rosa Mundi that usually is untouched is a mass of dead canes. Same for Jacques Cartier. Yet it didn't get cold until when was it February? And was very slow to warm up in Spring.

I nearly lost a Ballerina rose that I had in a whiskey barrel one winter. Obviously sees more cold in there than if it were in the ground.

Thanks for all the input. I do know the cold flows down-I keep temp records for a Fig test(talk about a massacre) I am participating in so I know what my temps are...Much colder right up against the hill. I have beds of Gallicas, Mosses, Centifolias and Damasks at the bottom and most of my Austins-they shrugged it off. I guess the HM's were still in growth mode. I dont feed these heavily-never after mid-summer. Ann, I took you advice long ago and have been able to grow some Noisettes. I can certainly put these in the upper bed that I am planting at the moment but really wanted that space-heck, I was going to move the others down the hill...guess not. Our Climate has certainly been in flux..... Thanks again.

patricia

I have Lavender Lassie, Dancin' in the Wind, and Bubble Bath. Of the three, Bubble Bath got clobbered the hardest after the great Easter freeze. The other two came through with only light damage. Lavender Lassie is now blooming with some flowers and lots of normal stems and buds. We get temps in the winter occasionally down to maybe -15, but not frequently. Our biggest temperature problems are wild fluctuations.

I had a look in the out back rose garden. Rosa altaica spinossimsiima or something like that is in full bloom. First time after some years.

But Charles de Mills, 3 bushes, is an assortment of totally dead canes with a few new ones amongst. Never have I had any dieback with them. What is going on?