I'm not any sort of ZD expert but what about just cutting it back severely? I recall someone on the forum who had to have her house painted and had to chop down her climbers severely. She was absolutely amazed at the speedy and spectacular recovery of her climbers, which looked better than they had in a long time. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Ingrid

It was a disaster here, too, and to top it off, didn't bloom. Just lots of monstrous mildewed foliage. So, it could be worse!

aaargh - the woes pile up - plum leaf curling aphid is all over one of the plums - if these were mature trees, I could ignore it but on a young tree, extensive (and it is) damage to foliage severely weakens them so it must be dealt with. The usual methods (water, horticultural soap are not going to work either as the leaves curl so badly, they prevent a spray actually getting to the aphids. To my great disgust, I am going to have to use a systemic insecticide. I have noticed this sort of thing happening in customers gardens, where no sprays are used and generally, a balance between aphid predators and aphids is achieved, but sometimes, after a few years, disease pressure builds up resulting in a kind of overflow year (especially if there are weird or unusual weather patterns). gritting my teeth against a summer of pests and disease - I am REALLY considering drink and drugs now.
Ho, indeed - cutting it back - you can be assured I will be doing, Ingrid, as it is an eyesore.
Hoovb - no blooms! that is rough but the ones I am going to get are definately not likely to be put in a nice vase either. Hard to know what's worse - no blooms or skanky ones.

Oh my...aphicide. we've gone a round or two here with the buggers lately. I turn the hose on them full speed and they usually disappear after 5=6 days of blasting them. It kind of feels good to do it. Sometimes leaves get blasted off too...not so good.
Is this approach possible? Probably not as you would have already done it.
All the best
Jeannie

I've just had to spray the roses with some pretty nasty stuff too. Far too many aphids and nothing here eating them at the moment. The weather is freaky for sure - got bare roots from last november barely waking up and some roses with big flower buds on them. I noticed David Austin were still shipping bare roots up until yesterday!!

Well, you could wash the crappy bugs off it with a hose, but why not give the over-hyped (for many areas) Zephirine the old heave-ho, and replace her with something better???

Jeri

Would a big pot defeat the rose replant enemy? And a different climber?

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

campanula, I had to post because as I read what you wrote, some bells went off in my head. You say that the Zepphies are in a cement raised bed, and they are chlorotic and I'm thinking this seems familiar. I built a rose garden two years ago and the main posts for the fence were concreted in, the roses and clematis near these posts all got chlorotic I have to keep acidifying the soil to keep them happy. Could this be your trouble? If the rose was too alkaline it would be more at risk for insect and aphid attack. Just a thought...
roseberri

Yeah, Roseberri - I had wondered but the bed is surrounding the rose at a distance of about a metre - this is why I am having some difficulty in removing it because not only is the new bed stuffed with my very expensive martagon lilies and kirengoshoma, it is more a question of leverage and space. If I did get rid of ZD, then it would be basically topping and lopping first, then a root treatment (stumpkiller style) later. Having just done the entire garden last year, I really don't have the appetite for major bed emptying, wall dismantling and such. I am still leaning towards the theory that the change of levels has been a contributory factor and wonder if anyone else has mounded up a rose with 6inches of soil and seen a deleterious effect. I have seen grown trees damaged by this - it should be done gradually, a couple of inches at a time, so I was aware I was taking a risk. Oh well, I guess a season of looking at a travesty will hasten a decision. In the meantime, a seaweed tonic and a sequestrene treatment might help with the chlorosis and I will go on keeping my eyes trained at about 3 feet from the ground.
Thanks for the advice and suggestions, even the hardhearted ones who opt for removal - I am certainly leaning that way more and more, then I can get a schisandra!

An expert rosarian said not to worry about planting roses too deep--she did exactly that when moving roses in big pots to holes--they were so heavy that they were planted much deeper than she wanted--they did just fine. IIRC we are talking about the same depths here. I've seen deep planting result in a second set of roots closer to the surface. I'm awfully lucky we don't have replant issues--I routinely move roses in and out of the same rose beds, over and over again. I've also commpletely redone beds--clustering the roses in groups for better effect and easier maintenance. Sometimes the roses sulk, but in a few years, they are as big and healthy as ever.

Good grief, Campanula, you have had a string of bad luck lately! Hoping things get "rosey" for you soon!

ah cheers, Seil. It isn't really bad luck in the general scheme of things - we are all well, no-one is suffering, they are just plants....but hey, gardeners empathise with each other over these things when my friends would be raising their eyebrows and wondering what the fuss was all about.
Am spending today in my nightie - well, it is half-three in the (grey) afternoon here and I am not dressed yet - with a ludicrous fantasy book and forays to the computer for another whinge. Saturday is a day I claimed as being free from food preparation so Mr.Camps takes over. True, it means I have been eating something on toast (or other bread-based snack,) every Saturday for the last decade but at least I only have to eat it)
I would enjoy random high winds and ice storms to hit Chelsea though, if only to see the irish fool fall off his scaffold and everyone get a taste of 'real' gardening.

I have to confess, I sometimes think an apartment in the skies of NYC might not be a bad idea. For the past week, we have enjoyed perfect blackspot weather. I am growing sticks. As I write this, Misty the deer and her fawn from last year are chomping away to keep Alberic Barbier under control. My Zephy, one of my few on rootstock, is now intertwined with Dr. Huey. I found two more roses with RRD this week. I spent half the money I put away for my property taxes on a trip to Roses Unlimited last week. No impulse control. I am covered in bites from bugs I never see. One of the cats is eating the butter. I have no place to put my brand new (from RU) Le Vesuve unless I dig a new bed, which I refuse to do even if I could do it, which I can't because my tiller is on loan to a friend, along with its gas can, so now I have no gas for the weed whacker. I should go rake up the holly leaves, which can prick thru chain mail, but instead I am in here whining.

So! I am not the only one who gets feeling low every once in awhile about the garden and life in general getting out of kilter. If "misery loves company", I hope you'll consider this company.

Cath

Lots of company. I have been grousing for the last ten years at least that strawberry farmers in Fl. Have to figure out a better way of protecting their crops from freeze than by pumping water 24/7. This morning I read that the pumping they did for 11 days in 2010 lowered the Floridan aquifer by over 60 feet. Just 11 DAYS. And the average person in Fl. Is on water restrictions and has been for some time. Why is this ok to the powers that be? I am still in a blue funk this afternoon over this. When will the madness end?

I didn't mention the number of sinkholes this caused, putting people out of their homes or the number of wells that went dry. The current theory seems to be it doesn't matter how many people have to suffer as long as the strawberry farmers have a crop. I realize this is a big economic impact, but what's the impact going to be when the entire state collapses into the limestone caverns underneath because of over pumping?

Well, venting does seem to help a little. Now I think I will call up my sister and vent some more.

I have no major complaints about my garden, but I can't stop worrying about global warming, the starving polar bears, the overfished blue fin tuna whose demise will completely upset the ocean ecosystem, dolphins and whales being slaughtered as though they were cockroaches, endless tornadoes laying waste to a third of the country, oil spills, world-wide pesticide overuse, senseless killings everywhere, and I could go on and on. I feel as though I'm living in a relatively untouched island in the sky and that all around me everything is going to hell in a handbasket, and it won't be long before this too is ruined in some way. Floridarose's post made me so frustrated, just another piece of stupidity foisted on humanity by short-sighted and greedy politicians whose palms are probably being greased by the strawberry lobby. I think I'm done now and will proceed to read a cozy mystery where none of those things are ever mentioned. Thank you for allowing me this useless but still somewhat cleansing vent. Misery shared is always better.

Ingrid

Our gardens are like our children in a way. We start them and nurture them and protect them with great care and become very attached to each plant. So when something happens, like my oaf of a neighbor who stepped on my iris and broke off some budding stems while "pruning" (this usually means, cut a couple of inches off the top and brush the debris into my yard) his hedges, we get very upset and then sad at the loss!

Whenever I get bugs, I plant chives next to the plant. I t seems to work, some of the time.

Here is a link that might be useful: chives and aphids

I must echo GOOD GRIEF -- but not for the same reason that Seil stated that sentiment. I agree totally with Jerijen -- rip those ZD emmeffers out and get on with it, Companula. If chemical intervention is anathema to you, what's the alternative? You think next seasons going to be better? Dream on . . .

If the cement is the new thing (besides depth) pH would be instructive, wouldn't it? Better sooner than later - if it is way high, your other plants might benefit from some acidity as well.

Oh my goodness---I guess I will have to change my GW name---LOL

When my DH asked me what name I wanted to use for e-mail--I said it doesn't matter because I will never touch the computer-(famous last words)
so he heard me talking to Zeffy and he picked my name Zeffyrose--------

My Zeffy's have already had their spring flush and it was lovely----of all the cuttings I've done there is just one that doesn't seem happy----I can't tell why but she just limps along while all the others are great----I don't spray and for the past couple of years they have pretty much been neglected .

I'm so sorry about all your problems------Over my many years I've had many days and weeks like yours---just keep your jammies on and "chill" as Abraham Lincoln quotes--"this too shall pass"

Florence

Suzy,
My empathy level rose abruptly yesterday afternoon when we went out and checked our magnificent cherry to see how this year's crop was coming along. Mowed down by the hail of several weeks ago, so, this year the cherry harvest is going to be extremely paltry. Damn. I look forward to those cherries every year.
A question: I understand that cherries don't want a lot of pruning, but this tree has some vertical branches an inch or two thick at the base, old water sprouts I suppose that are carrying the tree skyward. Should we get up there and cut them out? My husband cut the higher branches of the tree out several years ago so we could get at the fruit; it worked fine and we haven't touched the tree since. Would it be time for another pruning to eliminate those branches?
Melissa

oh yeah, Melissa, I am going to do exactly the same thing - so it fits under the net which WILL be installed for next year. Do it now, by the way as winter pruning for cherries (and plums) leaves them vulnerable to silverleaf or even fireblight

Suzy, thanks for the info. I presume it won't hurt to wait until after the cherry harvest, such as it's going to be.
Melissa