Sorry to hear about your rugosas. I hope it's not a disease. My Sir Thomas Lipton lived about ten years, but he was planted in a spot that might as well have had a sign on it reading, "Hit me with your worst winter wind."

And my Roseraie de L'Hay looks pretty bad, but I'm sure I can blame that on getting hit by the snowplow a few years ago. Until that happened, she was huge.

My smaller rugosas are young and apparently healthy.

I've heard that some roses don't like to be pruned, but didn't see it first hand until we got Stanwell Perpetual--severe die back on the pruned canes. I think it wants to be left alone.

Here is a link that might be useful: Paul Barden says Rugosas resent hard pruning

Jim and all,
Are the ones declining own root or grafted, and if grafted, on what rootstock?

Ann

The later ones were from Hortico not positive if they were grafted on multiflora but presumabley that's what they use.

FJ and Lipton were from a local nursery in pots so they might be own root.

Zack

I cut mainly old wood of which there was a lot as they have never been pruned.

Just now I went out to try cutting one of Sarah's canes to see if the pith was brown or green. Well guess what there were a couple of buds! I may have jumped the gun. Still its' neighbors are nearly leafed out.

I've recently seen the loss of scions on some of my decade old roses grafted onto multiflora. They just stop putting out basals of the scion. But when we've dug them out, the rootstock is still viable, but has in some canes overgrown and strangled out the scions. The knob of rootstock resembles a cypress knob.
I've seen this for the past three years on one to three roses per year.
If you remember Pete Flowers (from Belgium) about five years ago talked about multiflora not being used in Europe because it didn't make for long lived roses.
Could this account for part of your problems?

I do loose canes off of R. rugosa rubifolia and rubra, but so far my basic to the size of the rose canes remain. (And Fimbriata on multiflora keeps putting out one multiflora cane, but the majority of the plant remains Fimbriata. It may be that Fimbriata can dominate it's rootstock where some of my other roses couldn't.

My rugosas are 16 years old and are still going strong. I find it incredible that some resent hard pruning, as mine get butchered every couple of years, and spring back for more. However, the rugosas I have are not named, so maybe they are just more hardy.

Hopefully the two Moore's Spoted Rugosas I planted last year will be as long lived and hardy as my un-named varieties!

Jim -
One of my rugosas looks quite dead right now while all my other roses are starting to leaf out. On closer inspection I see that it's still alive, just way slower breaking dormancy than everyone else this year. I hope that's the case with yours as well.

And ten years old doesn't sound old for a rose to me, either. Is it the rootstock, or are there roses that short-lived, that is, they die of old age that early? However, I have to admit that I have no ten-year-old roses in my garden, which is only six years old; and I gardened in my previous garden for about nine years. So my experience is limited. It sounds to me like another reason to grow roses own root when at all possible. I have wondered about roses' life spans under favorable conditions, but no one had much of an answer when I asked. I guess no one stays in the same garden until they're a hundred, and then posts their results on the forum.

Melissa

Interesting about the fact that multiflora is no longer used in Europe. However there is not a lot of choice in N. America. I've had mixed success with own root roses. If the variety is naturally vigorous they do fine but when they are not they don't live long. Of course there's no way to know that without trying and then you're never sure as it could be a variety of other things.

The base of my older Lipton is a tangled snarl of canes. Hard to see how a new one could get through. So how does an an older own root look. The same?

I would think an older own root rugosa would sucker out quite a ways.I have a few that I planted last year that are andhave been suckering quite away from the main canes.

Rugosas do NOT prosper on the roots of other varieties. They simply don't live as long as they should/could when grafted to things like R. multiflora.

Was wondering about that point - thanks Paul - as Botanica recommended Conrad Ferdinand Meyer, but only if budded. Glad I went with the own root.

Jim,

I have noticed the same thing over the last year i.e., the decline of mature old rose bushes. Mine is not confined to the rugosas. I think in my case it is just that year after year of harsh conditions exacerbated by browsing deer or Japanese Beetles takes its toll. In particular, I blame the beetles for the death of 'Eddie's Jewel' a huge Moyesii bybrid; they were relentless in attacking the foliage. ÂMadame Plantier and ÂComplicata are just, I believe, declining as a result of the harsh winters and browsing deer.

My ÂSarah van Fleet suffered huge die back last year as a result of a lot of late season growth that did not ripen. It bounced back last summer and is fine now. ÂF.J. Grootendorst and ÂRobusta didnÂt make it for me as they are too tender for zone 4.

So, I would suggest that you fertilize them well this spring and water them this summer and hope for the best.

Sandy

When I've ordered grafted rugosas they've petered out right away.

Grafted vs own root? I think it depends a lot on your particular climate. For example Rosa Multiflora is a invasive pest here. While some roses on their own roots are not adapted to this climate and fail. So my experience is the opposite as bboy.

Someone mentioned that in Europe they don't use multiflora anymore. Perhaps for the same reason, other "roots" do better there. Pickering, Hortico and Palatine are surely aware of that and heve chosen to use what works best for them and their customers.

For better or worse in America it is mostly only own root roses that are offered. In part because these nurseries are mostly small and the investment in growing fields is too much to handle. Conversely in Europe there are many of major size who have been established for years.

So it is not simply a matter of which is best but more a matter of practicality.

Would these roses, regardless of whether own root or not, belong to the same "waterfree" group you mentioned on a previous post on the main forum?

More explicitly, would they belong to the group you don't water? I believe you mentioned something about rainfall being sufficient.

Otherwise, over the years it seems to me that you've announced that you don't fertilize--or amend--or prepare soil and most recently, that you don't water your roses.

In fact, it would seem that you quite proudly don't do any of the conventional things that anyone would use to grow any plant and then complain about the lack of results.

Not that I haven't noticed sooner, years ago in fact, but is this all some type of bad joke?

Regardless of whether it is or not, I think the individuals who've willingly supplied your "I Claudius" routine with answers deserve a tad more respect.

...and that's what I think...

MichaelAT

I'm pretty certain Paul is right that a rugosa will not live all that long (comparatively) grafted as opposed to own-root. Don't you plant with the graft buried so that they'll go onto their own roots? We do that here, and it makes a big difference. And on some roses, you absolutely have to bury the graft or the plant is not likely to live past 5 years, like the foetidas. I'd say the same thing applies to Scots roses as well.

--Ron

I've got a lot of damage on the rugosas as well, including rootstock from a long gone gone Topaz Jewel. But I find this is typical if older canes aren't pruned in time. I think last year's drought had something to do with it. Pickering grafts rugosas on rugosa, not multiflora rootstock.

My two cents here...
Paul, I do not agree with you, at least in our zone. I always insist that my customers bury the graft or branch union at least 3" below soil level. As for grafted roses, these will be on their own roots within 3yrs. I have many and most, venerable grafted rugosas which are paragons of vigor and health.
Rugosa decline? - Jim did you look for signs of rose/raspberry stem girdler? In our "mild" winter here in Maine, I'm seeing a lot of damage. (swellings with striations and many not so noticeable as in prior years.)
I can't remember a "normal" winter in quite a number of years and being a venerable gardener I simply feed and dote on my suffering or ailing plants and this rarely fails to succeed.

There were a few statements made in here that I would like to explore a bit.

One is the idea of fertilizer for Rugosas--is there a special fertilizer for them? It had always been my understanding that Rugosas resented fertilizer; and, in fact, one I planted for my mother in Massachusetts languished for years after my brother, who knew no better, put fertilizer around it.

The Rugosa strain is basically a beach rose, that can live in sand dunes by the ocean, so in any but exceptional years, watering would not seem to be a central issue. I realize that many are actually hybrids, though, and that they would vary with the variety.

Just as an aside, I have tried Yellow Topaz twice, and was unsuccessful both times. It was simply not vigorous enough to compete with nearby vegetation; it seems to need special handling, such as a whiskey barrel placement to raise it above other plants (although I have never tried that with it), since it is a shorter variety in any case.

My main point, though, has to do with Japanese beetles. To my amazement, last summer they left my newly-planted Rugosa, a Hansa (planted to replace one that had been shaded out in another location) alone.

Right next to the Hansa, I had positioned a tall three-sided garden arch, probably about ten feet in height, and had trained some rogue grapevines to climb it. This task was necessary, because the trees my grapevines had been climbing in the "wild corner" of my garden had been cut down by the electric company when they were maintaining their right-of-way through the neighborhood.

In any case, the Japanese beetles had decimated the grape leaves, but passed right over the rose bush.

Those of you that are dedicated rose gardeners and have the space, might want to consider planting a few grape vines on a high trellis as a trap crop. If you have the heart to do it, you could hang a beetle lure inside the trellis. (And if you have ducks, as I once did, and empty the trap into a tub of water, the ducks will happily eat the Japanese beetles! I highly recommend Khaki Campbell ducks, which can lay about 250 eggs per year under optimum conditions, and handily survive in a 6-duck clutch in a straw-carpeted, 4 ft.X 4 ft. enclosed shed in wintertime, without the additional heating arrangements required for chickens). :o)

I have six STL's; two are probably 10 years old and 4 are 5 years old. Last year's Easter freeze hit them hard, so I had a lot of dead wood to remove. Before the freeze hit, they were 6-7' tall and had a really nice umbrella shape.

Last week, I only had to prune out a few dead canes. Otherwise, they are all healthy and green.

Jim, I wonder if it's possible if your roses are suffering from last year's freeze? If you didn't remove the dead wood last year, it would be very visible this year.
-terry

Suzy may have put to rest the discussion about grafted vs ownroot. As she said a grafted rose will go own root in a few years.

That said I think rugosas are normally a very tough and vigorous group. So that is why this year their performance so far has struck me as odd. I keep turning this over and over in my mind trying to figure out why.

Isn't it strange that despite their different ages that this year they are reacting to an abnormal change? And it isn't restricted to rugosas. While I'm not the most observant or having a great memory this Spring my OGR's are very late in leafing out. My two Charles de Mills' have a majority of dead canes with only a few green ones. Why this year and not the previous year's. The Apothecary, Rosa Mundi and Jacques Cartier are a month or so behind more modern roses.

So I get to my point. Could it be Climate Change? We heated and air conditioned souls are not so exposed to what are plants are. Even rather subtle changes will determine whether a given species will grow here and not there. Rather small changes that we are not aware of can affect weather patterns. Just as in this area mid April had summer like temps and an unheard of period with no rain. April is normally cool and rainy.

Maybe I'm just too weird!

I don't think it's climate change. The rugosas you listed do well in the Southeast except that I'm not sure about Robusta.