I'm in Michigan, too. I echo what the others have said. I am a fan of the aluminum pans with clear plastic lids. but I think the milk jugs are probably the most secure and time tested. Here's what I do with my foil pans: I make sure they are at least three inches deep, and that the clear top is about 1 1/2 to 2 inches high at least. I move them to shade as soon at it gets warmer- the aluminum tends to cook the roots if not. I start them in sun until about late February, then I move them to partial shade. Also, remember that foil pans need more venting as it gets warmer- just make the holes bigger. If there's condensation on the inside of the clear top, there's no need to water-- but also remember that condensation can become boiling water. foil pans do need a bit more tneding than milk jugs. I work full time too. I just do my moving around and tending on the weekends and in the early evening. When in doubt, I have learned that more shade is better. I water them thoroughly BEFORE putting in the seeds. It took me three years to fugur out that if I poked the drainiage holes, filled with soil, and then set the container in a roaster pan fullof water it would suck up the exact right amount of water in less than ten minutes. Plus, less messy for my hadns. Then I press the seeds very lightly into the moist soil. When I planted seeds to deep, they did not germinate. they may heve germinated, but they couldn't make it allthe way to the surface. Remember, the rule is no deeper that half the diameter of the seed. In my humble opinion, the freeze/thaw cycle will pull them down farther anyway, so lightly pressing is much better. I had several failures becuase I pressed seeds in too far. My first year, I made deep holes with a pencli, and buried tiny little seeds in them. later, I realized that a deep hole is usually only good for sunflower seeds, and sometimes even too much for that. Also, top watering tended to wash some seeds away or down the sides of the container. Sometimes what I thought was no germination was actually no seeds left. I stuck with perennials all the way through February. Didn't start any annuals till March or later. I had really good luck with these perennials: Black Eyed Susan Gaillardia Evening primrose (not a beautiful plant, but a great confidence booster) Daisies and several other natives. If you email me, I woudl be happy to send you a Bubble envelope full of seeds that have worked well for me here in Michigan.

Wow, it's a small world (or internet in this case). I don't keep up with the conifer forum as well as I do some of the other forums, so I didn't realize this thread was a spin off of another one, but it's still a good idea to have the link to the above article as a reference for any future searches. I agree with Ken, that frequent replanting would go a long way towards solving the issues relating to soil decomposition, except for four things. First, even if you change your soil every other year, most soils will still have some drainage deterioration towards the end of the two year period. Second, if you use your old soil and mix it back in as many people do, that has the potential to cause problems. Third, it's good for everyone to understand how drainage works so that they are better able to decide what ingredients are best for particular plants or circumstances. Different species have different moisture and drainage requirements, and different circumstances (climate, amount of supplemental watering available, etc) require adjustment. Fourth, and maybe most importantly, many people (we know who we are) won't replant frequently enough even though this would be best. As for drainage, as it applies to container culture, being vastly different from drainage, as it applies to in-ground plantings, I'm not so sure. The physics is the same! Only the variable, or circumstances, change. A true understanding of one is a true understanding of both.

Quick return to this thread (I'm trying to get in a flurry of replies, been short on time): Al, you said As far as root-pruning goes, you will likely only undertake it every 3-4 years. Those plants that you have buried will be easy. Depot, saw the bottom 1/3 - 1/2 of the roots off, clean the roots & prune the fat ones. Then - right back in same container. You will likely see a diminished crop in years that you root-prune, but subsequent crops should be greater as a result of improved vitality. Does this mean, though, that as Herman had mentioned, whenever I root-prune yearly to unclog the bottom of the container, that I'll have a diminished crop from the pruning? it didn't sound like that was everyone's experience necessarily, so I want to understand the relationship between the degree of pruning and the lack of productivity, when it sounds like it might be the inverse from some of Herman's recommends. Also, with my figs being so young, I'll just mention that I don't need a saw, only a scissors to prune them at this point! (on a tangential note, I ended up pruning more than roots last night, when de-potting one of my figs: I found a rather large, slightly-slumbering arachnid of a copper-red shade lurking in the roots as I untangled them with my fingers - ICK! the scissors came in handy, rapidly, and now shredded spider parts are a component of that last batch of soil 8-p ) Again, from Al: With regard to your soil choice: A plant that is grown in a container that is not in contact with the soil will benefit more from the gritty mix than those you sink, container & all, in the ground. The reason is simple: there will be no perched water table in the containers that are in the ground. The surrounding soil will act as a giant wick & drain the water. So are you saying that ones being sunk into the dirt will have more wicking action and need a *more* moisture-retentive soil mix used? and that the ones above ground will need the better aeration qualities to avoid a PWC making the bottom portion of the container too soggy for roots to colonize effectively? just trying to clarify my understanding (I do appreciate having grasped the entire PWC concept, that's helped me strategize how I re-pot and mix my soil combos). And a flag to Herman, I don't know if you saw my query? (see above in the thread): Herman, do you trim your container figs to any particular size or shape? (Some of mine were pruned to single stem by the nursery; some seem to grow upright with less branching as a natural habit, others want to branch a *lot*.) I have quite a few single-stem cuttings that are little (24" or less) and have hardly any branchings - I don't want to pinch out the top growing tip on these this spring to make them branch, do I? this is an area I'm not familiar with, is how to prune and *when*, to encourage the fruit. I checked the archives in this forum and saw things about pinching back growing tips, but how big do you let the figs get first before touching them? Thanks for help, everyone! (still looking for Leon to chime back in about his grandfather's fig and any pruning that might've been done when unearthing it in the spring) Sherry (counting down with 15+ figs to re-pot)

I've often wondered if it would be successful to buy the planter pots which are not plastic but are a dirt/paper/cardboard type of material and are meant to decompose easily. I have two right now that I saved from a mum purchase. I've been told to be careful of the drainage issue, and that burying plastic pots in the ground doesn't allow the roots to drain, resulting in a mass plant funeral. I'm considering cutting the entire bottom off of these dirt/paper pots, placing some perennials in them, and digging the pots to normal planting length. Then next spring they will be dug up with plants hopefully intact and ready to go in normal planters...right?