It looks to me like it could be that some of the seeds you sowed in January are tender annuals. I think the Cosmos, Zinnias, Marigolds, Asylum and Petunias are probably best off for spring sowing.

I'm not sure about the soil you used, I always use the potting MIX, not the soil. Did your containers dry out? Did they become hard?

As far as protection, I don't know what kind of container you used, but if they have very good ventilation they should be ok, especially if you keep them in the shade. The shade will also slow down the dry out time. Some people keep their containers on the side of the house for protection from the wind, if you have a shady spot there, that's the place for them!

Thanks for bringing up this post Trianna. It can help other newbies like me.

So should the flats be really placed in a partial shaded area? I was planning to put all the flats in a sunny area. I read that sunlight is a major factor in getting really good germination. Now I'm worried that they may dry out.

Thanks.

Sun is fine in zone 5 in the winter. Relax. It's all good.

I don't know what caused your failure, but I do notice that serveral plants are those that will sprout early and then crash at an early hard frost. For ALL of those to not germinate, I would think about what you are doing and what your soil is like. etc.

I suggested shade because Trianna said she worked full time, and couldn't watch over them. She was concerned about them drying out.

Sun is best if you want earlier sprouts but, you need to watch over the container temp during the day, and the watering needs a bit more frequently.

I live in a north facing condo and get little direct sun, my sprouts are always a bit later, but they are strong and healthy.

Here's the deal with that: in zone 6 here in Columbus, you don't have to worry about things drying out. Ma nature provides rain and the skies are half cloudy. I plant out at first set of true leaves, so we don't even get to a point where watering is an issue.

Now that being said, when germination starts, I move the containers to dappled shade. It's interesting because I move it under my Locust tree which has no leaves when I start. By the time dappeled shade is necessary, the tree has leaves and all is well. Plantout quickly follows.

Ma nature is so smart.

"tin plastic lidded cake pans"... can you elaborate? All I can envision is the kind of foil pans you take leftovers home in, round, maybe 6- to 8-inches in diameter, about one-inch to maybe an inch-&-a-half deep, and with the plastic lids. Is this correct? If so, I wonder if the bottom is too shallow and the top too short? I guess I'm just looking for more info on your containers, since I'm not quite sure what you used.

Also, do you know if you truly got NO germination, or if perhaps you did, but the seedlings died off? That would make a difference in how you proceed this year. As bakemom said, having ALL those seeds not germinate is cause for a closer look.

I usually don't start sowing till the last week of January, and while I don't have my records handy, I have sown some of those seeds you listed in early February to mid-March. I stick my containers out along my house in the driveway, which gets pretty much full sun.

As far as protecting the seedlings from the elements, I can't help much. I just leave my containers where I originally put them, and let them fend for themselves. No major problems.... yet!

I hope you can find some answers here. I'd hate for you to not try again this year.

:)
Dee

P.S. In rereading your post, I have another question. Did you replant the same containers, or new ones? If you replanted the same containers, are you sure the seedlings you did get were from the second sowing, and not the first and that they just took a bit longer to germinate?

Last year was my first and I used the tin cake pans and milk jugs. All of my milk jugs worked and none of the cake pans did. I know that I had seed from a packet of parsley in both a pan and a jug and only the jug parsley sprouted. I don't think there is enough soil (or mix) in the pan. I would switch to milk jugs or soda bottles so there is more soil in the bottom and head room up top.

For all you newbies out there----You've got to have at least 3-4 inches of good potting soil. period. Otherwise you won't get very good results.
Duane

You should have about three inches of soil in a container--two inches is not sufficient, it will dry out too rapidly. The deeper the soil the more water it holds. If you vacation or work and you can't reliably water then set up a sprinkler and put it on spigot timer and set the thing to water the containers during midday when the sun is strongest.

Thanks duana456 and trudi. That means, the height of the shoe box I bought are insufficient. I'll check out the height again. :(

I'll let you know.

V1, for some seedlings those boxes are fine. Just make sure you have enough soil. I had plenty of space for Rudbeckia and Shastas this summer. I'm using one for Crape Myrtle seeds this winter. They grow pretty fast, but it should be sufficient until I can pot them into their own containers.

I added another inch. It's now at 3" to 3.25".

Thank you so much everyone. Glad I saw this thread. :)

I had minimal results using the cake pan containers. My best results came from containers that were deep (milk jugs, recycled flower pots, 2 liter soda bottles, etc)

I'm in Michigan, too. I echo what the others have said. I am a fan of the aluminum pans with clear plastic lids. but I think the milk jugs are probably the most secure and time tested.

Here's what I do with my foil pans:

I make sure they are at least three inches deep, and that the clear top is about 1 1/2 to 2 inches high at least. I move them to shade as soon at it gets warmer- the aluminum tends to cook the roots if not. I start them in sun until about late February, then I move them to partial shade. Also, remember that foil pans need more venting as it gets warmer- just make the holes bigger. If there's condensation on the inside of the clear top, there's no need to water-- but also remember that condensation can become boiling water. foil pans do need a bit more tneding than milk jugs. I work full time too. I just do my moving around and tending on the weekends and in the early evening. When in doubt, I have learned that more shade is better.

I water them thoroughly BEFORE putting in the seeds. It took me three years to fugur out that if I poked the drainiage holes, filled with soil, and then set the container in a roaster pan fullof water it would suck up the exact right amount of water in less than ten minutes. Plus, less messy for my hadns. Then I press the seeds very lightly into the moist soil. When I planted seeds to deep, they did not germinate. they may heve germinated, but they couldn't make it allthe way to the surface. Remember, the rule is no deeper that half the diameter of the seed. In my humble opinion, the freeze/thaw cycle will pull them down farther anyway, so lightly pressing is much better. I had several failures becuase I pressed seeds in too far. My first year, I made deep holes with a pencli, and buried tiny little seeds in them. later, I realized that a deep hole is usually only good for sunflower seeds, and sometimes even too much for that. Also, top watering tended to wash some seeds away or down the sides of the container. Sometimes what I thought was no germination was actually no seeds left.

I stuck with perennials all the way through February. Didn't start any annuals till March or later.

I had really good luck with these perennials:

Black Eyed Susan
Gaillardia
Evening primrose (not a beautiful plant, but a great confidence booster)
Daisies

and several other natives.

If you email me, I woudl be happy to send you a Bubble envelope full of seeds that have worked well for me here in Michigan.

Thank you very much for the great input. I am sure that the information will help me to not make the same mistakes this year.

The pans were aluminum, 13x9x2 in size, the type that you would use to bake and transport a cake in. I guess I misunderstood the information in the Making and Sowing Flats and Poster Suggestions for Flats to be Made from Recyclables portions of the Winter Sowing FAQ.

The soil used was Miracle Grow potting soil which was watered before planting the seeds. Lids with ventilation holes were snapped on and they were placed outside in full sun for Mother Nature to do her job of sun, wind, rain and snow.

Also to answer DeeÂs question on whether the sprouts could have been from the original planting, I had mentioned that I had broke my ankle and was relying on helpers to tote and carry. (LOL) My son emptied all of the pans forcing me to start over with fresh potting soil. At least he emptied the old potting soil in to a planting bed and not the garbage.

I am curious though about the use of the shoe boxes. Are these the plastic type? I had considered using them or the larger sweater boxes thinking that they could be used from year to year but wasnÂt sure what you would do for tops and ventilation. Most of the ones that I had seen had solid or colored plastic tops v1rtu0s1ty and token28001 how did you work around this?

I am still concerned about protecting the sprouts from the elements. I had thought that the containers needed to be placed in full sun. Having only full sun or full shade, I will have to puzzle out a new place to locate them. Maybe on the east side of my house, hmmmÂ

Thank you so much

Trianna

It does sound like the containers were wrong. But for me I also noticed last year was a bad year for petunias. I had a bunch sprout and then the rain we kept getting kept drowning the poor things. And then when I tried to reseed them the heat did not help them. I am hoping that this year is better for petunia.

Paula

Trianna,

I was reading your post last night and was interrupted so I'm back to put in my two cents worth.

You say, "In early April when I had previously experienced results with my limited sowings, nothing had sprouted, not one tiny little sprout. Unwilling to go without my cherished blooms I re-planted many of the containers from the seeds I had left."

I may have a couple of things sprouting in early April, but they are the diehard things like Sweet Williams, Bachelor Buttons, Alyssum, etc. Most of my seeds start sprouting in earnest in May and continue into June. Now mind you, I live along the Atlantic where things are a bit cooler, but maybe you should have waited a bit longer. Especially for things like Zinnias, Cosmos, Salvia.

I work too during the day and can't be there when all of a sudden a warm day turns into a hot day. My seedlings and unsprouted containers by May are in dappled shade, but sometimes the trees haven't leafed out fully so extra precautions have to be taken. I'll use anything - a pallet set on top of the containers to break the sun, evergreen boughs set on top work well too (my preference), etc. For heavy rain I use rubbermaid tubs, a sheet of plexiglass I got curb diving, tarps if necessary. That's only if the containers are already wet enough.

I do hope you meet with good results this year. There are some challenges along the way sometimes, but hopefully you'll knock those out so that this and future winter sowing years will be good ones!

I am curious though about the use of the shoe boxes. Are these the plastic type? I had considered using them or the larger sweater boxes thinking that they could be used from year to year but wasnÂt sure what you would do for tops and ventilation. Most of the ones that I had seen had solid or colored plastic tops v1rtu0s1ty and token28001 how did you work around this?

Well I used them in the fall so the white lids were very good to shade the soil from really hot summer sun here. But I did put a lot of holes in the top using a 1/4" drill bit. I think about 20, maybe more. It let enough water in during the few rains we got. Once they sprouted, I just took the top off and kept them in the shade until I moved them to the cold frame in October.

I am reusing it as well as an underbed storage container. If you look real close, you can see the white shoe box behind the lasagna pans. You can see the holes in the sterlite underbed storage container too. There's a little over 3" of soil in the large container, so I'll have to really keep an eye on it this spring. It's mostly trees and shrubs and has been out since early Dec. I've read that dogwoods need warm/cool/warm to germinate. I hope they're getting it. 57 degrees at 6:15pm. Supposed to be in the low 30s tonight. Poor seeds. I know, no babying.

{{gwi:457425}}

V1 had a different method and cut the tops out. There's a thread in here about that too.

trianna,

It's also my first time to build these flats. :) I did my best to save $$ by using whatever I find in my basement. The clear plastic came from a movie poster cover. I used it because it was broken. It was a brittle type of plastic. You can use any thick clear plastic.

Here is the first picture.
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I used this tool to score the brittle plastic. You can't cut it with a regular scissor. It will break. My heavy duty metal scissor wasn't able to cut it well.
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After scoring, this is the result. The vertical line that you see is the scored part.
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I separate them similar to how we cut gypsum boards(drywall).

I was able to make 12 pieces of it. I still have 2 unused. :)
{{gwi:457429}}

I combined all the 12 pieces together and drilled 10 holes. I drilled it very slowly since they were very brittle.

Next, I worked on the solid white cover. I made a rectangular hole using the metal scissor. The plastic was thick. It was a little bit hard to cut. I used my dremel tool instead to cut them.
{{gwi:457430}}

I started attaching the clear brittle plastic to the top cover. I drilled the 4 corner holes one by one to make sure they were aligned properly. I placed the clear plastic on top so that it can hold the weight of the snow better. It also saved me more rivets. :)
{{gwi:457431}}

{{gwi:457432}}

Here is the small piece of metal taken from a vienna sausage can. I used my metal scissor to cut it. I put metal on both side of the rivet.
{{gwi:457433}}

Almost forgot, I also drilled holes at the bottom of the shoebox.
{{gwi:457434}}

Completed flats project.
{{gwi:457435}}

Putting them to use.
{{gwi:457436}}

You can use other thick clear plastic and use heavy duty clear tape instead to make it more easier to build.

Lastly, I won't be able to do this without the help from most of the WS folks here.

Thank you so much!

Thank you for all the info from everyone and the pictures really helps too, this will be my first year WSing and I had thought that you just plant your seeds as fast as you can go as ssoon as the snow falls , with no order of anything, and nature will make each plant sprout in its own appropriate time...Chris

I also had dismal results after sowing in late February, and I am pretty sure it was because the seeds rotted. It was a heavy snow year and wet spring. My jugs were mostly sitting on the ground. This would be consistent with getting zero sprouting.

When I winter sow, I sow in 1-gal plastic pots filled with compost from my compost pile. I set the pots out in January, uncovered, and let the winter cold do its work to break dormancy.

When they germinate in spring, I thin to a dozen starts in each pot, and let them grow in the 1 gal pot. Then I can transplant the whole chunk out of the pot for an instant clump of whatever plant I am growing.

Do not winter sow annuals. This is for trees, shrubs, perennials and biennials.

Many annuals and many vegetables are tropicals and are better sown in the spring. Of the plants listed in your experiment, perhaps only larkspur would do well winter sown.

Keep trying and better luck in 2009.

GreenElephant

I planted some seed that I had scrounged from a garden tour years ago, and it was out in my freezing porch all that time. I just popped them in a 2 liter bottle, and they grew very well. Turned out they are lupine, which I really don't care for. Oh, well! My greatest success was late winter/early spring sowing of alyssum and saved tiny marigold (gem?) seeds. I planted them in the lasagna pans that Tiffy had suggested, and they were as thick as moss.