Quercus palustris and rubra questions

lucky_p

16 years ago

Q.palustris is more inclined to soggy soils than Q.rubra.
Q.palustris is inclined to be tardily dehiscent - even 40-yr old specimens here hold significant numbers of leaves through the winter.
Q.palustris' lower limbs sweep down to poke you in the eye, and as you prune off the offending lower limbs, the next tier sweeps down to repeat the performance until you make a really tall lollipop tree out of them. If you have alkaline soil, it'll tend to be a chlorotic cripple unless you're committed to regular iron injections.
Q.palustris has been overplanted in the municipal/residential landscape, here, almost to monoculture status, and large, mature specimens are succumbing, over a 5-year or so period, to a double-whammy of bacterial leaf scorch and heavy infestations of horny stem & branch gall wasps.

Do I hate Q.palustris? No, but it's not my choice for a small residential yard. Wet spot, I'd put in Q.lyrata.

quirkyquercus

16 years ago

Q. Lyrata.... now there's one you don't hear about every day
;-)
Depending on where you are you might come across Nutall Oak (Q. Nutalli) which is supposed to be adapted to wet conditions and has decent fall color. It's a little bit smaller too I believe in maturity.

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I posted a question and it got sent to the conifer forum, I wasn't paying attention to the forum intermingling that was going on when I pushed the submit button, but anyway here goes. Does Q. Coccinea compete well in growth with Q. Rubra, Q. Alba, Q. Robur, Q. Durandi, Q. Phellos, Q. Imbricaria, Chinkapin oak ( can't think of the name )? I don't expect anyone to get technical about each tree, but in a general situation, if you planted it near ( 35 ft at the closest) these trees, to create a small wooded plot will it compete well enough to not be overtaken. I have heard they grow slow, that's why I ask. All of the other trees will be small, just like the Q. Coccinea, when they are planted. This will be a small area so it won't be like a large forest as far as darkness. Hope I mentioned all the info needed for an informed answer, I usually forget something!

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mine grow around 3 feet per year ... but dont forget i started with 6 footers ... when i move free range babes in the 1 to 3 foot range.. they tend to SEEM to just sit there for a few years ... you are not going to plant a one footer.. and get it to grow to 4 foot the first year .. they are trees.. not perennials ... if it does anything.. you might get it to two feet in 2 more years .... never forget.. with a tree .. that they need to grow the root mass.. to grow the tree above.. and those first few years are all about roots ... if it lives.. you just have to believe ... that they will get going sooner or later ... 35 feet apart ... sounds fine ... i doubt in your life time.. they will encroach on each other .... make sense??? i dont consider any of this hijacking.. i post to entice... and expect questions ... i suspect the oaks like my course sand and high drainage ... ken

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Your tree is getting some width growth compared to the last pic. The subject of fall color above has me wanting to mention that I have added a Nyssa Sylvatica to my yard, Black Gum or Tupelo tree. They get great fall color or so I've read. I bought 3 by accident. I have 1 in the ground,1 in a pot and 1 is in a raised bed, and I am going to TRY Bonsai with it. I will transplant the potted one this fall. I am not sure where it will go yet. My yard is getting very crowded, I wish I could give it to somebody. I meant to buy only 1 of them. That Regal Prince will get how wide in maturity? About 15 feet? I forget, sorry. My oaks are doing fine, a few have had Japanese Beetles really eat alot of leaves. Like my Q. Velutina. It has had some issues with what LOOKS like "Butt rot" or a fungus type thing at the trunk bottom. I've been using a fungicide on it, and it seems to have healed the original scar. That is the only REALLY decimated tree (Japanese Beetle infestation) in my yard, and, I am guessing because of the Fungus problem making it weaker than all the other trees in my yard. The rest just had some leaves eaten that didn't harm tree. I need to do an update about that tree (the Q. Velutina) on GW BUT, I can't post pics anymore. I had posted and taken a pic or 2 showing the tree wound. I want to do an update, but, I can't. My computer didn't recognize the disk when I put it in my computer. Anyway, enjoy the rest of summer Dmac, I am waiting for Fall, and it's cooler temps, I can't take this 90"s F crap having. Later.

alabamatreehugger 8b SW Alabama

16 years ago

I agree with Lucky's suggestion of Q.lyrata, and Q.michauxii is another good one.

dirtslinger2
Original Author

16 years ago

I've never come across Q.lyrata or Q.michauxii. I am buying by 10 lots as seedlings. They had a few other oaks but my books suggested slow growth and adapted to dry conditions.
Seedlings grow slow enough, was hoping for speed.

I may just get 5-10 of each and think about where they go permanently. Thanks so much!

lou_spicewood_tx

16 years ago

Nuttall oaks supposedly grow very fast and thrives on wet land. Grows straight up to 60-100 feet tall depending on who you ask. I planted around 40 or so seedlings on my flat clayey soil that takes forever to dry out. In a few years, I should know how fast they grow. Oaks are slow pokes for the first two years at least if you do nothing to help speed up establishment like mulching and providing water.

quirkyquercus

16 years ago

Dirtslinger... are you in Canada??

kman04

16 years ago

Nuttall Oak(Quercus nuttallii) has been the fastest growing Oak for me. A 6" seedling has grown to 40' tall in about 15 years. The next fastest growing Oak for me has been Overcup Oak(Quercus lyrata), which grew from a 18" seedling to a 35' tree in about 15 years. Others of both species I've planted have grown at similar rates. Another Oak to try would be Swamp White Oak(Quercus bicolor), which also grows quite fast in favorable conditions(wet or at least not dry).

All of the Oaks suggested can and do grow just as fast or faster than Q. palustris and Q. rubra(with the possible exception of Q. michauxii which grows a bit slower) and all of the suggested Oaks prefer and thrive in wet conditions. Nuttall Oak has reliable spectacular red fall colors. Swamp White Oak often has a very nice pumpkin orange fall color. Swamp Chestnut Oak(Q. michauxii) often has nice red fall colors. So, you can get really nice fall colors off of these Oaks as well. Most, if not all Oaks, will hold their leaves through the winter when they are young. Some will stop doing this quicker than others, but as Lucky noted Pin Oak (Q. palustris) is notorious for doing this until it's quite a bit older.

alabamatreehugger 8b SW Alabama

16 years ago

I planted a Q.michauxii about three years ago as 1-2ft tree, now it is around 10ft tall. It's been fairly drought tolerant too.

Pamchesbay

16 years ago

You won't go wrong with Q. nuttallii and/or Q. michauxii.

About Q. nuttallii, Dirr says it is "one of those rare discoveries that excites the pragmatist and researcher because of aesthetics and cultural adaptability ... it develops a full canopy at an early age, rapidity to caliper, greater range of pH adaptability, wet soil tolerance, ease with which it can be dug in early summer ... in short, it is a nurseryman's oak."

The leaves turn crimson in the fall, "followed by complete leaf drop ... a grower's tree as well as a gardener's tree. Use as a specimen and street tree ..." Grows 40-60 feet high. Zones 5-9.

Q. michauxii is another favorite, Dirr describes "groveling" under these trees to collect acorns for propagation. In maturity, "it is a mammoth tree, rounded in outline, with 4-8" dark green leaves ... small trees are transplanted without difficulty and grow exceedingly fast ... I believe this is, like Q. lyrata, Q. nuttallii and Q. prinus, a noble tree for southern landscapes. Grows 80-100' high and wide. Zones 5-9.

i don't know if you are interested in large quantities (50). If you are, both are / were available from the Indian Mound Nursery in Texas (link below, click "Hardwood"). The seedlings of both are very large - about 4 feet and well branched. They are getting low on stock but I think they still have Q. nuttallii.

Here is a link that might be useful: Indian Mound Nursery Online Store

dirtslinger2
Original Author

16 years ago

Yes I am in BC Canada. The oaks I'm looking at would be shipped out from Ontario so I'm not afraid of shipping little ones. Across border isn't doable though.

Sounds like I really should search out the others suggested! Thanks.

jqpublic

16 years ago

Well Lyrata is only hardy to zone 5. What is your zone? Looks like maybe Bur Oak, or Garry Oak (aka Oregon Oak) may be a better choice??

lou_spicewood_tx

16 years ago

dirt slinger, do us a favor, let us know where you live and the zone beside your screenname like we do. It makes thing a bit easier for us to help you out... I thought you live further south.... I don't know if nuttall can grow that far up north.

prairie_gal_z2b

16 years ago

Dirtslinger,
I'm ordering from Rhora's nut farm in Niagara, On. They have a good selection of Oak and Hybrid Oak selections that will probably do wonderful for you, they're a tad more than usual (5 bucks each when you buy ten), but you can get a mixture of really unique oaks, that no one else has. The descriptions aren't the greatest, but you can look them up on the OIKOS website for more info. Another great place for oaks in Canada in Van den Nest nursery in Ontario too, they have Q. velutina, palustris, macrocarpa, rubra, alba, and muehlengergii. I ordered from them last fall and was totally impressed with their plants and prices. Great place to order oaks from.
Good luck with your plantings!
Koren in Saskatoon

Quercus palustris and rubra questions

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