I had read the comments from the Tea Bag ladies, but will go back to one of the first questions I asked about 'Francis Dubreuil', when this thread first began to drift from its original topic: Was the original 'Francis Dubreuil' a "true Tea", or was he a "Hybrid Tea"? Or was he that other thing, a "Tea hybrid"? The earliest descriptions of FD say his color was a dark red with pink or cerise or amaranth highlights. My assumption is that 'FD' was darker than other red Teas, but would not have looked terribly out of place hanging out with other reds such as 'Gen Gallieni', 'M. Tillier', 'Souv. de David d'Angers', 'Mlle Christine de Nouë', ''Corallina', 'Safrano a Fleurs Rouges', 'Princesse de Sagan', 'Bardou Job' and- of course- 'Souv de Therese Levet'. Here's a 1901 review from a German rose reviewer about Francis: "Francis Dubreuil (Dubreuil 1895) is not only one of the most excellent red Tea roses but also one of the best Tea roses of all. The flower is in fact only of medium size, and sometimes even small, but keeps extremely well. It lasts In bud form for a very long time, and is then at its most beautiful. The growth is vigorous and the crown is well branched. What I like most about this rose, is its capacity to produce solitary flowers on long, upright stems, I do not like roses in flower umbels (in clusters). Its floriferousness (flowering period) is very long, it lasts right up to the frosts." That mention of "solitary flowers on long, upright stems" makes me think we might find some HP ancestry in Francis' background, no? And it accords well with other early mentions of FD having "diffuse growth"... Here's an early discrepancy, though; the review above says 'FD' "lasts in bud form for a very long time, and is then at its most beautiful". Contrast that with an earlier British review- Francis "is described as full flower of a fine form, opening very readily, perhaps too much so"... So if Francis was dark red and had diffuse growth, he seems to be quacking like an early HT, and not a "pure Tea"? Was he classified as a Tea because of his fragrance? According to Guillot, 'FD' is descended from 'Souv de David d'Angers' (described as "deliciously fragrant" in 1864) who is in turn descended from 'Caroline', the Tea that may be synonymous with 'Bermuda Spice'. Some early reviews of 'FD' say he is fragrant, most say nothing, and at least one reviewer says "not fragrant". This assortment of varying opinions shouldn't be surprising, given humans' different capacities for smell, and given the way odors can vary according to temperature, time of day, etc. The scent of Tea roses seems to be especially elusive, and elicits a confusion of descriptions, so I'm inclined to believe that the original Francis probably had a Tea scent and was fragrant to some people and not to others. However, I think it's also possible that if there were an early confusion with at least one grower offering a different rose as 'Francis D', the differences in opinion about form and fragrance could stem from an early switcheroo. Just because there was a later mix-up with 'Barcelona' doesn't mean there wasn't also an earlier mix-up somewheres down the line. And if there were an earlier misidentification, this early imposter might be the rose that was later sent from Sangerhausen to Oz in 1981? Another question I have relates to size. The Tea rose grown by Mr Knight just outside of Sydney was a large rose bush. The roses grown in the U.S. and Oz as FD today both seem to be more compact and HT-like (although the Aussie plant that hails from Sangerhausen seems to have a earlier HT look than 'Barcelona' does?) I'm trying to get things straight in my own head, so if I'm off-course in my suppositions, please get me back on track. Virginia

Oh, this is such an old thread... but at least I won't be the only one still posting in it! I was gifted a Sungold and a Brandywine (no idea which version) from a friend years ago, stuck them in a patch I dug out of the front yard... and they were amazing! I haven't been able to bear to eat grocery-store tomatoes since. But the intervening years have been focused on other things; my one attempt at gardening 3 years ago was a failure when I didn't find time to water (or weed) anything for three weeks at the end of June. Anyway, this year I finally have the right mix of time and space so I spent the winter reading up and dreaming, and... well, let's just say my family and local food shelf will have lots of tomatoes in August... Most seeds from SandHill, but the Sungold Select II and Green Zebra from Bakers Creek, and a handful are from cherrygal.com Cherry Types Blondkopfchen Sungold Select II (soooo excited to have snagged these!) Black Cherry Green Doctors Snow White Cherry (gift from SandHill) Hawaiian Mexican Cocktail "Regular" (I can never keep the beefsteak/medium/etc apart in my head) Brandywine, Sudduths Gogosha Green Zebra Black Krim Black Sea Man Rosabec Purple Calabash (gift from SandHill) Lucky Cross Potato Leaf "Other" Riesentraube (we'll see what tomato wine tastes like...) Yellow Pygmy Costulato Genovese When I got the two extra varieties from SandHill, I couldn't decide whether to jump up and down for joy (yay, two more flavors to try!) or despair - I spent weeks choosing my list, how could I fit 2 more?? But I decided joy was the right reaction. :) I'm sure it'll be more than a jungle in the yard this summer, but it'll be an edible jungle... and I have never been so grateful for the half-acre lot we have as this year. :) Good thing my husband is here to talk me out of cutting down our trees so I can have even more sunlight... Unfortunately, the cutworms have already been busy - but fortunately, although I only planned to grow 2 plants of each variety, I actually PLANTED 7-10 seeds... and almost all of them came up...and then I couldn't bear to cull since they all looked so healthy... so I ended up with lots of seedlings to give away. :) And to replace cutworm-killed plants. And then to give away some more! And still have replacements on hand in case my popsicle sticks don't do the trick with the cutworms... I'm just lucky Minnesota had an incredibly early and mild spring, my seedlings have been outside since the first week of March (with short breaks inside overnight until April) - there was no way I had enough grow-lights or space in the basement for them all! The seeds that I saved from those unknown Brandywines years ago still germinated three years later, so I'm really hoping to increase my seed from every one of these varieties this summer. Just need to cross my fingers and toes that I can get at least one tomato of each variety to survive and ripen enough to collect their seeds! Watching the cutworm decimation last week made me doubt I'll have luck that good, but hope springs eternal...

Barb...both happy and sad....Happy he is moving forward with his life. Knowing he will go far as long as he stays focused on his studies, and learns to quit being so wasteful. Sad because he is moving on and we will be seeing very little of him in the next 4 years or so. We havent made any new life adventures yet. House needs some TLC. I suppose first we will get used to having a home with just us and the critters and go from there. Chell I used to be a dog and cat groomer. I loved it too. But my employer was a deedeedee. Never had the money to pay me each week and always "owed" me. And she never gave me my tips either.Then at the end of the year she reported more earnings for me than what I had really made.Fortunitly I kept records and proved my case and won, so make sure you don't let the same happen to you. I have kept my clippers, blades and accessories and still will do a neighbors dog or two once in awhile to keep my skills up.....but don't miss the hair stuck in places I did'nt know existed....lol. Love all the pictures the everyone post. Always enjoy seeing ya'lls babies. Regina

OK, I also grown Small Fry, but not for quite a few years. I don't remember anything remarkable about it one way or another. However, I can suggest Husky Cherry Red (widely available) as an excellent variety that grows well in containers. I have grown it in the garden and also in a (real) Earthbox. Both ways have been very satisfactory. For me, they have been sweet, solid, and have a good "hang time" on the vine. The plants get about 4-5 feet tall and produce for a long time. The only negative is that the skins are a little tougher than I'd prefer. But this is a common issue and the alternative is usually that really thin-skinned ones split readily. Another somewhat reduced plant size cherry tom. is Sweet Baby Girl. My sister grows them in about 7-8 gallon tubs and they do very well, but they are a much larger plant than Husky Cherry Red. -WC