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aggierose_gw

Is there a better white rose than Pope John Paul II ?

aggierose
14 years ago

I have room right now for one more rose and since I don't have a white one yet, that is what I am going for. I decided to order PJP, but I just want to confirm my decision! The rose MUST be intensely fragrant and have great blooms for cutting! It will be certain death in my garden if it doesn't have a great scent as I will sp it! Are there any other whites I should look at before I place my order?

Comments (41)

  • the_morden_man
    14 years ago

    Yes, Claire Austin.

  • aggierose
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Morden man...I didn't think claire austin was available yet. Do you know where to buy one? HMF doesn't have any supplier listed either.

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    I tried PJPII own root many years ago. It didn't die, but just never grew. It was 2 ft X 2 ft at best and only gave me an occasional bloom when I finally got rid of it. I have it on Dr Huey now, and it's doing great for me. Rain, humidity nor heat seem to bother its blooms. I've had Sugar Moon for two years now, and Kathy is right, itâÂÂs already at least 8 ft tall. For the most part, only blooms on top of those tall canes; whereas, PJPII blooms all over for me. It's not as tolerant of rain, either. We had massive rain this spring, and most of SMâÂÂs blooms either balled or rotted without opening. The few that did open were ruined by the rain. It greatly improved once the rain slowed down and seemed to open okay in our high humidity. PJPII didnâÂÂt miss a beat pumping out big, beautiful blooms in all the rain. Both are stunning and very fragrant, but have different bloom forms. Sugar Moon's blooms are like huge camellia flowers. I donâÂÂt have any good individual bloom shots of SM (since IâÂÂm not 8 ft tallâ¦lol), but hereâÂÂs the best I haveâ¦itâÂÂs really much prettier in person: And here's PJPII being very rain tolerant:
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    Thank you for your kind comments all! There are thrips, just not enough of them to completely ruin the flowers. I do grow 'Lemon Spice'. 'Lemon Spice' has a more, well, lemon+spice kind of fragrance. 'PJPII' is lemon+old rose. At this point 'Lemon Spice' is stronger, but 'Lemon Spice' is well established at three years in the ground while 'PJPII' is new this year, so that is to be expected.
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  • susan4952
    14 years ago

    and neither does her father

  • chuck_billie
    14 years ago

    Full Sail and JFK come to mind.

  • peachiekean
    14 years ago

    Here is what our local nursery says about PJPII
    "Pope John Paul II - White. Good size, form and strong citrus fragrance. Grows 5Â tall. We expect MR=A This is the son of Secret. (jp)"

    The other parent is Fragrant Lace according to HMF. It's growing in my garden this year.

  • michaelalreadytaken
    14 years ago

    I don't grow it but think the ones I've encountered are amazing.

    MichaelAT

  • the_morden_man
    14 years ago

    Aggierose,

    Alas no, Claire Austin is not yet available in North America, at least not that I am aware of... The minute it does become avalable, I shall be purchasing one.

    I saw several specimens in DA's gardens this past June and it is a truly outstanding rose. I am very excited to acquire at least one. Was also one of a small group of roses that was completely untouched by BS at time of visit. The blooms are large and the fragrance is very strong and sweet.

  • caroleintegacay
    14 years ago

    I love my PJPII! I bought it last year and it performed beautifully! It is a healthy, happy plant with big white flowers that smell truly citusy. The only problem I did have with it was that the thrips liked it.

    Carole

  • rjlongo
    14 years ago

    I ordered my First PJP this year through Regan's. It was quite small with thin canes. I should have ordred direct from JP. The first blooms were a bit deformed, but the last few have been much better. I wish they took longer to open fully and lasted longer.

    I also ordered an "Anastasia" which I'm liking a bit more than the PJP.

  • meandmyyard
    14 years ago

    I keep hearing fantastic things about PJP, but how does it compare to other whites? I've been searching for a white to add, and I was trying to decide between Full Sail, JFK, Honor, Moondance, Lime Sublime, and Queen Mary II. Now I'm totally confused by the rave reviews of PJP. Can anyone provide some insight on these roses? Many of them are not often mentioned.

  • sunnishine
    14 years ago

    I have heard very bad things about JFK...I don't suggest it.

    Honor and Full sail get brown spots when it rains.

    Moondance is good. I have this one and like it but I have read on here that PJP is much better. People on here who have both prefer PJP. I got it new this year and it has just finished leafing out so no personal experience on that one yet.

  • diane_nj 6b/7a
    14 years ago

    JFK was a horror show for me. I was happy when Dr. Huey suckered and took it over.

    I don't know if my Lime Sublime is still alive. It was one of the children of nursery pots. I think it might be gone now. It isn't white, is is yellow with a greenish tinge.

    My PJPII is own-root and still small. I hope it takes off this year (2nd full season, I received it in the fall of 2006).

  • carla17
    14 years ago

    Is Claire Austin white???
    Seems like everyone wants Pope John Paul II lately.

    Carla

  • mnten
    14 years ago

    Full Sail is a very aromic rose. The only thing is, seems the JB,s love it!

  • Molineux
    14 years ago

    Don't get John F. Kennedy! I once grew it in zone 7b VA and was very disappointed with the performance. Yes the flowers were very handsome with their high centers and strong fragrance but the plant itself was stingy in producing them. Disease resistance was poor as well. This rose was a lot of work for very little gain.

    FRENCH LACE is my favorite white rose among the Floribunda, Grandiflora, and Hybrid Tea classes. Give it the same care you would a Hybrid Tea (including spraying and feeding) and it will reward your effort with sprays and sprays of breathtakingly beautiful, blush-white flowers. The petals have a translucency that must be seen to be believed. To me the blooms have an almost porcelain like quality. The moderate "fresh" fragrance smells just like carnations and perfectly matches the delicacy of the flowers.

    I've also heard good things about Crystalline, Full Sail and White Lightnin.

  • geo_7a
    14 years ago

    Sombreuil?

  • kris2001
    14 years ago

    I have the Austin Winchester cathedral and is awesome!!Anyone have this too?

  • predfern
    14 years ago

    Bolero (Romantica) is nice.

  • phylrae
    14 years ago

    I'm glad you started this post, aggierose! :0)
    We have had Winchester Cathedral for about 6 years, and each year it seems nicer. But we do spray for disease here.

    Ditto on the reputations of JFK being lousy, and White Lightnin' and Full Sail being good, solid whites. We had Margaret Merrill. It was nice, but thrips made it a disaster. I gave it away!

    The other day I stopped by a local nursery who had just put out their J & P boxed roses. PJP was one of them, and I remembered reading here that everybody seemed to rave about it. Think I'll pick one up before they are gone! Nothing else there seemed to interest me too much.

    :0) Phyl

  • sue_ct
    14 years ago

    How does PJP compare to Maria Shriver? I got one PJP late last year and never got it into the ground, it died over the winter in a pot outside. I really did not get enough experience with it to evaluate it. Maria has survived the last 2 winters with no protection in z6, but Vetrans Honor and Firefighter did not survive in the same garden. Maria is hardy for me but turns brown more easily than I would like, esp in a garden that is very visible and needs to look good. Before I add several PJP to my order, does it do OK below zone 7-8 and in a southern exposure garden, and not turn brown with a little bit of rain? I need replacements for a southern exposure garden of red and white roses. I really need more hardy whites that won't turn brown and reds that won't burn, and scent is a must. Cutting is preferable, also, as is good repeat. But surviving the winter, scent, and not turning brown or burning are most important. I was just wondering if PJP is what I am looking for also.

    Sue

  • jont1
    14 years ago

    PJPII is the best white hybrid tea I have ever grown. I planted two of them last year and was delighted every single day by them.
    The bush is lush and healthy and grows super vigorously. It produces large ice white perfectly formed and super fragrant blooms. My two also overwintered extremely well with no protection at all.
    This is a GREAT rose for your HT garden.
    John

  • sue_ct
    14 years ago

    Thank you very much for replying. Sorry if I hijacked the thread a bit, but I thought we were looking for a similar rose. :)

    Sue

  • predfern
    14 years ago

    Before deciding on Winchester Cathedral, smell it. Some folks love it, others are revulsed. The local nursery had WC but the blooms smelled like dirty diapers to me so I didn't buy it.

  • Jean Marion (z6a Idaho)
    14 years ago

    There are a lot of great whites, but not many with the bloom form of PJP.

    One thing to keep in mind is that PJP hasn't been in commerce that long... so not as many people are growing it that can see it at it's mature state and be able to remark if there is a better white HT out there yet

  • TomSD
    10 years ago

    Haven't read all the posts - but even after having some beautiful/reliable - very fragrant champs in our little Rose Garden - such as Double Delight, Mr. Lincoln, Oklahoma, yada yada - the second year of Pope John Paul II saw it just explode - with over 50 flowers at times.

    And just love the citrus/lemony fragrance.

    It works great here in San Diego, 4 sure. :)

  • garyns
    6 years ago

    GaryWA


    I have yet to buy PJP but will get two this year for my red & white fragrant rose bed. An acquaintance in Australia owns Swane's which is one of the largest rose nurseries in the country. He tells me that this is the best ever white, fragrant, HT. He has never recommended a rose that didn't excel. ZI think they will fit in very well with the other 80 or soe roses in my yard.

  • fragrancenutter
    6 years ago

    PJP II is the best white rose I have ever grown.

  • zippitydoodaday
    6 years ago

    I have (2) Sugar Moons and (1) PJPII. Sugar Moon has a stronger scent. Everyone swoons.

  • SoFL Rose z10
    6 years ago

    Sugar Moon has a far better scent, but PJP is a better performer by far.

  • romogen
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago
  • zippitydoodaday
    6 years ago

    Funny...those are exactly the three whites I have...Sugar Moon, PJP II and Secret's Out. If I had more space, I would get Full Sail.

  • the_bustopher z6 MO
    6 years ago

    I also like Sugar Moon, but I would also throw Polarstern onto the list of good white roses with a scent.

  • Buford_NE_GA_7A
    6 years ago

    I have JFK and PJP. PJP is a much more prolific bloomer, but the JFK blooms are to die for. If you can grow it, give it a shot. For just pure bloom form, Randy Scott is also wonderful, but it lacks fragrance.


  • jjpeace (zone 5b Canada)
    6 years ago

    I only have one white rose and unfortunately I don't know the name. I prefer roses that have a blush of other colours and then fade to white. I guess my question to the original poster is are you looking for a pure white rose or roses that fade to whites. It does make a difference of course. For someone who wants a pure white garden which I assume this is not your case since you mentioned that you don't have a white one yet.

  • Al Mitchell zone 5b (ameri2nal)
    6 years ago

    Maria Shriver is very nice with as good of fragrance as PJP2

    mine struggles a little with BS though.

  • SoFL Rose z10
    6 years ago

    Ooh, I never knew Secret had a white sport. I love secret, its one of my favorite roses. I recently managed to find it on Fortuniana and am excited to see how it grows. Unfortunately soon after planting it, it suffered a little shock and lost many of its leaves. But it seems to be bouncing back nicely. I hope it lasts!!!

  • kublakan
    6 years ago

    I love me some PJPII! I call it the white Belinda's Dream. The scent is powerful and the plant loves to bloom.

    On the not so fragrant or floriferous, I present White Christmas. I like this one much better the JFK.

    I'll agree with SoFlo on Sugar Moon. It has done better for me than it did for her. Mine has produced an abundance of blooms, but still pales in comparison to PJPII.

    -Adrian.

  • zippitydoodaday
    6 years ago

    A postscript on my last post...now that the season is further along I agree with SoFlo too. I still love my Sugar Moon and Secret's Out, but PJPII...now that is a special rose! It is much more floriferous than the other whites, smells great, beautiful form and lasts a long time in a vase...and is disease resistant. What else could you ask for in a rose?

    If I had to do it again, I would get multiple PJPII and just one of the Sugar Moon and Secret's Out.

  • zippitydoodaday
    6 years ago

    If roses could read minds...

    I swear my Sugar Moon read my mind. Since my last post on June 10th both bushes (front & back) have shot up new thick canes (not suckers). By comparison my PJPII (left) and Secret's Out (right) look like dwarfs next to the Sugar Moon bushes (all are first year roses). It looks as if my Sugar Moon bushes wanted to remind me why I got two of them and one of PJPII. It's working. They look crowded, but that diamond between the boxwood began about 4'-5' wide.

  • purilisaVA-zone7
    4 years ago

    Ric-VA-commenting on an older post. I have both and maybe JFK/Pascali(lost the nametag, so don't know if it's jfk/pascali) . PJPII fragrance is not as strong as sugar moon, but it's so Amazing in it's own way and so is the flower form and shape. Planted near the front door and I can smell it every time. Got this one from a nursery and it was already a lush looking plant-probably bare root planted maybe from Weeks. Sugar Moon, got own root fro RUnlimited in 2017, this year the small plant is valiantly putting out new branches and blooming non stop- It is never without a bloom(love it so far), came through our bad winter without any diebacks-there was no winter protection. SM has an amazing strong fragrance and so is the flower- it blooms slowly and the slow progression of the bloom lasts atleast a week, and then suddenly it goes from looking like an HT rose to a peony. I love both and they are special in their own way and worth buying. JFK / Pascali great looking HT flower, very slight fragrance(hard to tell, we had non stop rain), lots of new canes. Need to watch for black spot...My recommendation is ofcourse-Buy both of them.

    In the white category-I also have Bolero(too small, have not bloomed yet), Iceberg(bareroot, 1st year, loaded with buds but has not yet bloomed), LilyPons(cute with pointy petals, can't detect any fragrance, flowers which started of small are are getting bigger), rugosa alba-intensely pure rose fragrance(can smell it across the yard-suburban), miniature white rose from walmart- unknown but a bloom machine.