Are these newly planted plants or established ones?

While compost is important, I would think that a problem with the soil would cause a decline in plant health and vigor before/instead of outright death in established plants. I have no personal experience with gaura, but I do know that some plants take their sweet time to come up. Some plants take so long to come up in my garden I start to wonder if they are dead every year... but then they spring up, some a month late to the party. I can not tell you where gaura would fit into that but it might be prudent to wait and see if there is a chance that the declaration of death is premature.

What coreopsis did you plant? They are quite variable. Some are much longer lived than others. grandiflora and its look alike can be sort-lived sometimes - what were they?

I know it's quite different for us here in So.Cal., but both my gaura and shasta daisies have fleshy tuberous roots that make the status of the stems unimportant, because they return every spring from the base almost as bulbs do.

I also lost my gaura after the first year and I have lost my coreopsis every year. I've tried Coreopsis Early sunshine and it never retured and also Coreopsis Limerock ruby and it didn't return either. All the plants were in garden beds with great soil. Oh and I lost Galliardia too. I just don't plant them anymore.
Joann

Gauras and western, dryland Agastaches can be tricky to overwinter in the east where wet winters are the rule. To help them survive you must plant them in very well-draining soil, plant them high (on a little mound), and never cut the plant back until spring and new growth has begun from the crown. Even then, they don't always make it, and they rarely survive in heavy,clay soil in the east.

Get a soil test done and see if your soil is lacking anything. And feed the soil, not the plants.

Hi cargobean...

Sorry to hear you are losing so many plants every year. I wonder if you are paying attention to the hardiness zone information when selecting plants? I know Gaura is borderline hardy where I am and I am in zone 6 as you are. I have linked below to the usual description of a perennial...Gaura....and if you go to the link you will notice at the top, that the zones that it can be depended on to grow are darkened...starting with zone6.

To my knowledge, gaura is not reliable even in zone 6. I rarely lose a plant in my garden, but I usually select plants that are at least one zone lower then 6 for hardiness. If I select something, that is only hardy to zone 6 then I know from the start that I may lose it one winter. Why? One reason is because we don't always have a zone 6 winter. Sometimes we have a zone 5 winter. [g]

I have tried Gaura a couple of times and lost it over the winter both times. It is sometimes the case that other factors influence hardiness. For instance, I have clay soil and that is a limiting factor as well. Some plants just do not do well in soil that holds a lot of moisture over the winter, which I understand clay soil does. Clay soil doesn't drain as well which I would think Gaura would rather have. I have found there are a number of plants that fit into that category and since I just want to grow them anyway, I have chosen to use a raised bed for better drainage when I want to try this type of plant.

I have heard there is a variety of Gaura that is more hardy...I think it is a white variety, but not sure what the name is, but I haven't seen it available locally. Maybe you could google it and come up with a gaura that is hardy to zone 5.

As for Shastas and Coreopsis...I am new to Shastas, but mine did come back this year. I have had green foliage most of the winter even under snow. Coreopsis, I too would like to know which variety you have. I know that here in my garden, I used to have a few varieties of coreopsis and if it didn't come back, I didn't have to worry because I usually would have plenty of seedlings around my bed. Now I only have the 'Moonbeam', which comes back every year without fail. It isn't really up yet here, so too soon to say if yours is dead.

You mention no dependable snow cover now where you are. That will also make a difference and all the more reason to stick to plants that are hardy to zone 5 or lower.

pm2

Here is a link that might be useful: Gaura

Coreopsis may be finicky. Moonbeam is usually a trooper. Limerock Ruby should not have been marketed as a perennial. Although beautiful, it should be regarded as a tender perennial or annual for most zones.

I know what you mean about planting expensive "perennials" and losing them after one winter! 4 years ago, I bought 2 expensive Miscanthus grasses 'Adagio' for $30 apiece. They grew beautifully, and I liked them better than 'Gracillimus' or 'Variegata'. Next spring they were dead as doornail! Apparently NOT hardy to zone 5. Same year, also planted some Coreopsis 'Early Sunrise' - supposedly they are hardy to zone 4 or something. They didn't return and I haven't bothered planting Coreopsis since.

With Gaillardia, you need to make sure you plant the perennial species (G. aristata) and not the annual (G. pulchella), although the annual will apparently reseed. Gaillardia also likes well-drained soil.

I'm doing winter-sowing this year for the first time - it has opened up a whole new world of starting plants from seed and trying to grow whatever I want. It's very economical, and if a plant doesn't make it for the long haul, it's no great loss.

Gaura are late to emerge.I've not lost mine over the winter. Mine look pretty dead right now, but so do a lot of other perennials. It is too early tell for sure. Many plant that are late season bloomers seem to be late risers.
If you loose plants over the winter it has nothing to do with how good or bad your soil is. It can be temps just too cold for too long for the plant to withstand. It also can be too much moisture over the winter as stated above. Or in some areas, not enough moisture can kill plants over the winter. Also newer plants sometimes heave out of the ground over the winter and die. This drives me crazy! If you catch a plant heaved out soon enough and get it back in the soil, you can save them sometimes. Plus little rodents sometimes burrow under plants especially in winter causing them to die. I probably forgot another reason or two why plants die over the winter, but I hope your plants are just slow waking up.
Remy

in decent soil.. as you describe.. plants my NEVER need fertilizer .... as someone said.. feed the soil.. not the plant.. and that does NOT mean fertilizer ...

more death is caused by improper fertilizing than abject avoidance ...

in my zone 5.. i NEVER add any fert.. after 7/1 ... so that all of the nitrogen can flush away .. for lack of a better term .. before the dormancy period in october ... and i am working in pure sand.. if you soil 'holds' the fertilizer... you are creating problems ...

a plant that is growing too lush.. too late in the season ... will not properly harden off for winter.. and will die ... this includes trees.. conifers.. perennials ... EVERYTHING ...

it 'sounds' like you have good soil ... get a soil test from the local Ag agent ... and 'fix' any problems the soil may have.. but do NOT willy nilly feed your garden ... its just a waste of money...

all that said.. it sounds like you are zone pushing.. which is always frustrating.. the best recommendation is to join a local garden club .. or watch the newspapers for local tours.. and go to tour other local gardens.. and learn what grows in the area ... most gardeners like to share.. which makes the cost low if they give you free plants ... and if you tour 10 gardens.. and no one has a guara.. well that will tell you something also ...

my bottom line.. in many of these forums is::

WE KILL MORE THINGS WITH TOO MUCH LOVE AS COMPARED TO BENIGN NEGLECT ..

plant them.. water them.. and jump back .. dont start complicating everything.. by thinking they are children.. and need to be fed ...

good luck

ken

I'm usually over on the Cottage Garden Forum, but stopped here to see what's going on with perennials. We (North Carolinians) had a rough year in 2007 with several late frosts in April, then a prolonged drought that just ended.

For the most part, I don't trim/deadhead until spring unless the perennial absolutely needs it in the fall.

My gaura is just starting to emerge here in zone 7.

Coreopsis: my 'Moonbeam' and 'Creme Brulee' are coming back, but Limerock Ruby is totally gone. The verdict is still out of 'Heaven's Gate'.

Agastache: my 'Blue Fortune' and some unlabeled orangish flowering one are coming back with vigor. I'd like to add 'Tutti Fruiti' this year -- if you have tried it, is it vigorous.

Shasta: My 'Broadway Lights' are coming back, but I think I may be down one for some reason.

Coneflowers: I planted a lot of the new varieties and so far, the 'Harvest Moon' has shown any signs of life. It was hit hard by the drought considering it's a coneflower. The orange 'Sundown' and 'Sunset' are showing signs of life with a few casualties. The 'Rubenstern' are all coming back.

I recently wrote an entry in my gardening blog about the deer and drought tolerant perennials in my garden -- nepeta, lavender, agastache, salvia, ice plant, coreopsis.

Cameron

Here is a link that might be useful: blog: deer and drought tolerant perennials

Hi Guys: Thanks for your feedback so soon!! My coriopsis were Early Sunrise, and their tag said hardy to zone 3. My Gaura's were Petite Pink, zone 5 and Stratosphere White, also Zone 5, so don't feel I'm pushing my zone? Unless they are mislabeling, does that ever happen?

I am happy to hear that maybe some of these are slow coming up, I will keep an eye on them. How do you guys tell if they are really dead or not? I scratched them and some of them are still green, is this still alive?

Also I don't understand why no-one is giving their plants fertilizer? I bought a 5 month slow release one that won't overfeed, but feeds slowly. I thought this was a good thing? Do you guys just use manure, or compost for the soil? I know some plants require more fertilizers; like shasta daisies and delphiniums? So how do you give them more, more manure?

I also put a good amount of hay on all my plants so to give them some cover to make up for the lack of snow, and this worked fantastic the first year, but not this year. Oh well, I guess I might end up sticking with old and tried favorites. All my lilies, daylilies, sages, roses, and yarrows come back year after year, but I get bored too and wanted to try something new. I guess each garden is different. But thanks so much for all your help, it's wonderful to hear from you all. Cargobean

Cargobean--there's still time for your stuff to show itself. And your soil sounds nice enough for most purposes.

I've lost every gaura I've ever planted, despite some pretty good drainage. Thus I no longer buy gaura. Shasta daisies I grow from seed, so it doesn't bother me all that much if they only last three years or so--it makes room for more interesting things.

In addition to different plants liking different conditions that we sometimes fail to meet with consistency, I think sometimes people confuse "perennial" with "lives almost forever." Not all plants are programmed to live 100 years like a peony. And I think sometimes one gets short-lived perennials that are sold by garden centers at their lifecycle peak--and it may all be downhill from there! These are my theories and rationalizations about why some plants die, anyhow.

That being said, aim for the tough stuff. If you Google "short-lived perennials," you'll probably get lists of them, often alongside lists of long-lived perennials. (I read on one that shasta daisies are short-lived unless they get regular dividing and potassium).

Alright, Early Sunrise Coreopsis is a grandiflora... they have some at the city gardens... quite pretty... but grandiflora types are quite short lived in many cases. I would say it is still too early to tell but it would not be terribly surprising if it does not return. Coreopsis verticillata in general is much longer lived, 'Zagreb' in particular gets high scores in that regard. Limerock Ruby I guess was expected to me much hardier than it turned out to be... I hear zone 8 might be pushing it with that cultivar in terms of hardiness!

This has happened to me as well. My Coreopsis, Moonbeam and Limerock Ruby died. Both Early Sunrise and Golden Showers, however, come back year after year. I've given up on stuff that needs extra protection or fertilizers. I don't have the time. I keep it simple and plant stuff that does really well and in fact, thrive on neglect: coneflowers, daisies ('Becky), catmint, salvia, sundrops, daylilies, peonies, lambs ear, ladies mantle, agastache, sedum, etc. If it dies off, I just don't bother replanting it. There are too many other options out there!

Hi cargobean,

just some of my 2 cents....

I love to zone push and I love to grow alpines, and I really don't think you have an issue with it. What might be going on is probably the moisture level of your wintertime soil. I agree with laceyvail...get those that you are having problems with into a drier, faster draining soil(by mounding them up...amending the soil, etc.). What may be a wonderful soil to most plants could be the very thing killing your gaura and coreopsis. So many people lose plants not to the extreme cold they experience, but the cold wet conditions their plants are experiencing. Try growing in straight sand, and you would be surprised what treasures you may be able to overwinter...not for all plants, but you will be surprised!:) I've got a sand bed that is most wonderful:)

Also, instead of the hay...which holds in moisture...use evergreen boughs...much, much better. Boughs won't compact, don't attract as much rodents, and certainly will not keep those crowns of those plants wet, cold, and miserable.

Don't get frustrated, maybe those plants just need to be moved around a bit or adjusted a bit. You will find the niche for them, and the success will be even sweeter:)

good luck
m

Hi guys: Thanks for all the advice, it helps a lot. I did also think that the hay got too wet, or that I put it on too thick but I had done it this way in the very beginning of my garden and nothing died, so I thought I had a perfect plan, guess not. And I had heard about the pine boughs, so might try that, by cutting them off my old christmas tree. Do they get very sappy? I find my christmas trees are very sappy.

But great idea, also I'm glad I'm not the only one to loose these plants. I think I'm just going to move on, it's just it's hard now to try a new plant, all the while worrying, am I just wasting my money. And ya know, I would not mind if it even lasted 2 years, but to have it only bloom in my garden for one year, is equivalent to an annual, that I can buy for a buck!! That's the frustrating part. I have looked into the longer lived plants and have purchased accordingly this year, thanks for that piece of advice, so I pray it'll be a much nicer spring next year. Thanks so very much for all the advice, it's so nice to hear from you all. I do so love gardening, and want to continue enjoying it and fix whatever I am doing wrong too.

cargobean, in zone 6 you really shouldn't need to put anything at all on your plants in the winter to protect them, unless you're pushing your zone and trying to grow zone 7 or 8 plants. In general, don't cover the crowns of the plants, but if you must, the advice to use evergreen boughs is good.

"Unless they are mislabeling, does that ever happen?"

I don't know if mislabeling is the right word - hardiness zones are only an approximation of average winter cold temperatures, with a 10 range. If a plant is hardy to -18°, do you label it as hardy to zone 5, since it is hardy for most of zone 5 (which goes to -20°) or to zone 4, since it is hardy in all of zone 4? I've seen nurseries do it either way. Also, as others above suggested, average coldest winter temperatures are not the only factor contributing to hardiness, though they are the only one accounted for in the zone rating. Other factors include moisture, especially during the winter, which often leads to rot in dry-land plants like agastache or penstemmons; the duration of cold and its timing (2 weeks of sub-zero temperatures may have a different effect on a plant than a few hours, and a sudden hard cold snap in early fall before plants have gotten ready for winter can have greater effect than more gradual temperature shifts or ones later in the season); and snow cover, which helps protect plants from extreme cold temperatures, dry winter wind, and frost heaving when the temperature is swinging above and below freezing. So, my brother, who lives in the Colorodo Rockies, has a similar zone rating to mine, but has quite different weather conditions most years, though we both have similar temperatures and a largish amount of snow.

Another non-weather related factor that contribute to winter losses in my garden include the cursed mice and voles which in heavy snow years tend to burrow beneath the snow to eat my plants.

hey

i know it sounds like i am lecturing.. but its just the passion ... dont be offended ....

you are z5.. i am z6 .. we differ by what amounts to two weeks ...

our growing season is really only mid may to late sept .. THAT IS 4 MONTHS .... i would never fert before the last frost date ... and never after the first frost ... and as i noted.. at least a month or two before the first frost ....

you are applying a 5 month slow release fert ...

that means you are releasing fertilizer when the plants are supposed to be slowing down... not growing fast ..

setting aside the whole issue of how and when release fertilizers work .. that is doctoral thesis stuff ...

i think you are ignoring a major part of your problem... improper fertilization ...

slow release fert is an engineered product used in POTTED nurseries industry .. where the watering systems flush the entire pot on a daily basis ... it is engineered for such ...

IMHO ... for what it is worth .. it is not engineered for the garden.. is prohibitively expensive .. and as noted.. not properly timed for release in most garden applications .... did you know that there are a multitude of formulations for release times.. as well as fert formulas.. and minor elements.... it really isnt a one size fits all system ...

you would be better off buying a balanced 50 pound 12 dollar bag of generic fert.. 12-12-12 or 16 cubed.. or 19 cubed.. and just adding a bit in a circle around each plant [maybe a teaspoon or tablespoon per plant].. once every 6/1 .... and saving the other $50 bucks ... and spending it on more plants ...

or even better.. just improve you soil with compost .. free fert.. and skipping the fert altogether ...

they are plants.. developed freely by mother earth .. for milineum ... plants never need to be fed .... given somewhat decent soils ...

they are not children .... which need to be coddled and ....

water.. sun.. and food from the soil.. is all they really need .... i am sure.. wE KILL MORE STUFF WITH TOO MUCH LOVE... than by benign neglect ...

good luck

ken

PS: you arent a real gardener.. until you have killed every plant at least once.. and some suggest three times ... lol ... its how we learn ...

Hi All: Wow, I have always read to cover the garden if you don't get adequate snow levels, which we do sometimes, but not always. I have also read to apply a balanced slow release fertilizer, either in chemical form or organic, which they said both have draw backs. I think I might switch to a 3 month release fertilizer, or maybe just the compost and manure, but I have to purchase them for now, seeing I am just in the process of starting my compost bin.

Hey Ken, I am zone 6, not 5. Or at least that's what all the zone sights say, and I don't mind you lecturing me at all but I think if you saw the way I gardened you would not accuse me of coddling, lol. I plant, water and deadhead, that's about it. I like plants that are fuss free and will live a few years in my garden, not too much to ask?

And nhbabs, you are right on with the zone's being only about temp's, and I should think about the wetness also. I think I might try the boughs, seeing they will let the plant breath, and that sounds like a good thing.

Thanks everyone, I feel better now. You all have a great spring, I'm going out to dig around in my garden, it's beautiful out there today. Cargobean

No, face it. You are a plant coddler:-) If I did even half of what you do to my plants, they would probably die of shock. Fertilizer is something that crawls into my garage to die. Mulch takes a one-way trip into the garden. If it has to come back out, it's useless. Watering is for other people. Mentally disturbed people who think that plants are wimps. I've heard of deadheading. I might even get around to it one year.

Basically here, plants get good soil. They get put in the soil, and after that they are on their own. Most things think it is wonderful here, given that they are reasonably well suited to the climate. This may not be the time or the place to admit that I can grow gaura, but.... I really don't understand the fuss about this plant. It's nice enough, but it would have to seed around a lot more than it does to even begin to make an impression here.

ditto on mad gallica's observations-I don't fertilize regularly, I have crummy soil, around here it's survival of the fittest-had a good stand of gaura for a couple of years, but that may be it. I put in a 'Mr. Landscaper' microirrigation system last year around the house, so watering is easier, but my plants definitely get tough love...

Lol Mad Gallica. My garden is quite similar except the veggie garden does get fertilizer and watering. I still don't think people believe me about the roses growing without being pampered even though I have pics now.

Cargobean,
I saw the tiniest of leaves at the base of one of my Gaura for the first time today.
Remy

Everyone here has given good advice. The soil is the most important thing, you should add manure and compost to your garden, it helps keep plants happy. You can have your own bin to make compost as well.
Sometimes,plants are mislabeled as they said, but with some extra steps they can survive. I have lavender, mums, roses, and I did get the H.G. coreopsis, but if you mulch well, and I buy the big burlap rolls from Menards and them I cover the plants with the burlap and tie some string at the base, Ive been able to keep these plants each year. I learned about this from a master gardener.
Sometimes plants are in the wrong spots and if they're moves, they like it much better. We have all lost plants, but I'm a w/s convert as well, so I'm able to get more plants for less.
I would also be careful with the fertilizer, they don't really need it if the soil is right.
I only use fertilizer on my roses 3 times a year, that's it.
Good luck.

Hello cargobean,

Looks like you have gotten a lot of responses. It must be that this is a topic that struck a chord for many people. Probably because we have all lost plants at one time or another. I have lost a lot of plants for one reason or another over the years. Just two years ago I lost the new Echinacea Harvest Moon, which I can't attribute it to any reason in my garden, but have heard too many reports about problems with the new echinaceas to blame it on anything else. Sounds like you have already arrived at some conclusions about what you want to do next. Already planning a compost bin, already trying to choose no fuss plants....going to try the evergreen boughs. I hope you will forgive me if I embroider the edges of what has already been said, if not for your sake, for the sake of others looking for similar information.

On the subject of fertilizer... I use fertilizer in my containers only. I try to improve my soil instead. I was fortunate to learn gardening from someone who had already had enough experience and knowledge about growing plants that he had already worked out for himself to grow organically and to 'feed the soil' not the plants. I seem to remember his family had already been doing that before him too. He also had a masters in Physics. He had a great garden, so I just followed his lead. Since then everything I have read, or experienced has only validated that. The subject of Soil/Compost is not the most exciting topic and I have a tendency to gravitate to the Perennial and Shrub forums etc., but I do spend time over on the Soil forum too. A lot of very knowledgeable people over there at times.

Like you, I also take the approach of using plants that can fend for themselves for the most part. It depends on how much I like a plant, how much trouble I will go to for it. For instance, I love delphiniums and they are not usually considered the easiest, 'fend for themselves' plant. You have to stake them for starters, which I try to limit. But if I can get them to grow well, everyone here really enjoys them, so that is the one plant I have chosen to make an exception to my usual approach. :-) I haven't fertilized those either though and they performed well last year. Keeping my fingers crossed for this year.

I just wanted to say again, if it hasn't been clear from all the responses. Over the years, I have heard more reports of gaura not surviving the winter than it making it. I have the impression that it is notorious for not coming back in my neck of the woods. The Northeast is well known for having a clay soil on the acidic side for the most part. I did a google search of just your Petite Pink Gaura, as you asked if it could be mislabeled. Most references give it a zone 5 hardiness, but I did find two references that refer to it as a zone 6 hardy perennial. One of them being White Flower Farm. So, it would seem that not everyone is in agreement that it is zone 6.
Here are the links...

http://www.gardencrossings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/plants.plantDetail/plant_id/1110/index.htm
http://www.whiteflowerfarm.com/29475-product.html

Since the last time I posted, I was looking for some information on a variety of Shasta that I have and I did run across an article reporting that they too do not like the moisture over the winter. Where I have mine planted, is a mounded bed that slopes slightly, so the drainage may be ok there for them.

You asked how you tell if something has made it. I have never put much store on scraping the stems to see if they are green. I only depend on new growth. I wait it out to see if there is new growth. How long do I wait? Well, that really depends. Lots of times it won't bother me to wait until mid to late June. If it is in a prominent place and I am afraid I am not going to get something else in that position to bloom in time to enjoy it, I might not wait that long and replace it. Of course, if the plant is really important to you, that changes things. You could always dig it out and pot it up and watch it longer if there is some doubt about whether it might come back and then plant the open space in the bed without waiting. Plants have surprised me so many times, after I was sure that they were dead, that I really like to give them a chance if I really like them and don't want to replace them.

You mention that you want to fix what you might be doing wrong. Really it is not about doing what is wrong so much as that with gardening there seems to be always something more to learn...lol. I am still learning after 25 years of gardening. I discovered winter sowing on the Winter Sowing forum on GW just three years ago, after someone on another forum highly recommended it to me. Wow, that was an exciting learning experience! I had so much fun and I just wished I had known about it sooner. If you have a lot of reliable plants like those you listed but still find you want to try new plants every year, winter sowing is the way to go. It is not only fun, it is really easy, very inexpensive and you end up with a ton of plants every year. Best way to try new things without it costing you a bundle. PLus a lot of annuals can be done this way and save you even more money. I found that when I did this, it really doesn't bother me to lose something as much because I have so much and I can replace things so easily. I am not able to do as much as I like, but if you don't have any obstacles in the way of spending the time/energy doing it, then you would probably get even more out of it than I have.

Hope you are enjoying this beautiful spring weather and that some of your plants surprise you with some new growth. :-)

pm2

Hi cargobean,

So many folks, above, were right on target with their great advice, especially about NOT fertilizing so much except for container-grown or annuals. The soil and garden conditions before you plant are more impt. than what you do after you plant.

Also good advice, ....have a "tough love" approach, that is recognize that a plant will survive in an enviornment that's best for it so don't hover. They've got to want to live!

Ditto with trying to relocate some plants that reappear but are languishing. Try another spot after researching what that plant needs: it may thrive in a new home.

Molie

Hi again: Thanks so much everyone for all the advice. And especially prairiemoon2!! I loved your response, so friendly. I am going to try and just add compost and manure and not do the fertilzer. We'll see how it goes.

And I will also try all the other advice too. I am much more excited now than I was in the very beginning of spring, as so much is growing now and I have divided a lot of plants, so have more that I now know will come back next year. Happy gardening everyone!!