OK. In your post about cover crops I mentioned that generally native plants don't need a lot of soil improvement, being already adapted to local soils as is. I think since your soil had a lawn growing more or less successfully on it, you don't need to worry much about improving the soil. If you were in new construction that would be a different matter but you're not. In our rainforests, as in most rainforests, there is very little organic matter or nutrient content in the soil itself. Too much rain, everything gets washed out. The nutrients tend to be contained in plant biomass, either living or relatively recently dead and fallen to the ground. If you were to dig a soil profile in the Quinault rainforest there'd be an organic layer of leaf and twig debris on top of the soil along with fallen logs and branches; then there'd be a very very thin A horizon which is where most soil microbial activity takes place; then there'd be a heavily leached B horizon (the lower part of what's called topsoil) and below that there might be subsoil or there might be just rock, or a glacial hardpan. I'm surprised at how thin the soil is that these trees are growing on! Roadcuts and landslides in the Olympics show big doug firs growing in just a few inches of soil on top of bedrock. Typically for rainforests, both temperate and tropical, most nutrient recycling take place in the organic litter on top of the soil and the top few inches of soil. Some plant roots reach deeper of course but mainly for water and balance, there's not much microbial activity down there. That's one reason you see so many plants growing on top of rotting logs and stumps - it's where the nutrients are. So, what to do with your garden. You could plant now, without adding anything to the planting holes, and mulch around the plants - that would mimic their native environment. In our area you can plant hardy plants any time the soil is neither frozen nor waterlogged. If this will be your first winter in this garden, you might want to see how it performs over the winter, flooding and drainage wise, before finalizing your planting plan. Or, to be sure you've gotten the lawn grasses out, you could go with the cardboard covered with manure and tree chips route, then plant in spring. Typical ryegrass lawns are not that persistent, but if you had bentgrass or quackgrass, you need to be sure it's gone before planting. Adding organic mulches should take care of any nutrient needs. Yes our soils are typically low in calcium, but that's what the native plants are used to. Don't worry about it, or the pH. Leaf mold from deciduous trees would add calcium too, it's the coniferous stuff that makes our soil acid and calcium deficient. But what does 'deficient' mean if you're growing plants that are adapted to that state?? Calcium content is mainly an issue when growing (non native) plants from areas where the soil provides more calcium than ours does. What, no salal?

Paul, you hit the nail on the head, I think. It does come down to money for those in the business. I guess it is up to hobbyist and serious collectors to keep track and catalog these plants to help preserve them. I noticed that even in some of my books some of the photographs will be labeled something like "a pot full of echerverias" when there are four or six different ones in there. Perhaps listing them all by name wasn't practical or convenient for the author, but it is annoying for the reader. In the meantime, I guess we'll all have to chug along and have fun tracking down names! Penny

want list: trees/shrubs: Black gum - Nyssa sylvatica Spicebush - Lindera benzoin Bamboo - Large enough for crafts and light construction (fences, trellises, etc), Fargesia or other clumping type only. Or I'll take harvested culms in lieu of live plants. fruit: Blueberries - any kind that will tolerate some drought. herbs/vegetables: any kind of mint, sage, rosemary, lavender, and thyme. any kind of perennial edible Alliums: leeks, shallots, chives, garlic chives, garlic, multiplier onions globe artichokes seeds: anything listed above annual or biennial herbs: parsley, dill, caraway any kind of heirloom tomatoes, esp. Cherokee purple & black chery heirloom/o.p. summer squash: yellow crookneck or patty pan any heirloom/o.p. vegetables: eggplant, peppers, beans, peas, lettuce, spinach, beets, carrots, etc., etc. annual flowers: marigolds, impatiens, petunias, allysums, cosmos, etc. Worms! If anyone has some red wrigglers to spare I'd love some for my compost pile!

Roy, I've read and reread your post and I am at a total loss to work out what you are telling me? When I said "Stopped caring", I was refering to getting up tight and militant about the issue. I've given what I hope is a logical and reasoned approach to sizing water tanks, with my justification. Practical experience suggests that the long term averages are too high for tank sizing at the moment, but I still hold that if each household installed the tank size I suggest then we wouldn't be in the pickle we are in. As a result I feel that if I have done that much, then I should not feel guilty using water the way I do. I do not believe that having each house fully self-sufficient for water is economical or desirable from an environmental perspective, as significant resources are used to make the tanks, to make the pipes and plumb everything in. There is always a diminising return on effort expended so you should think carefully about exactly what your goal is, and optimise for that. In my case I felt that we should be looking at the cost per L of water available each year. When I wrote that page it seemed reasonable to assume that there would be enough water in storage to tide over drought periods. Of course, as I was the only (near enough) person to think this way, our water supply has dwindled to the point where that assumption is no longer true. As a result, I am punished (reduce opportunity) for my efforts at water conservation; hence my disinterest in further efforts. Frank, regarding towns having higher rainfalls than the catchments; I think you are probably right. There is strong evidence that cities strongly affect local climate to the extent that standard weather models have to take them into account. If you can reasonably quickly fill that tank, and you have room, then go for it! Regarding PRV idea, it was suggested in ReNew a while back and had the blessing of at least one council in Brisbane, so there is precedent. I do collect all the water I can, despite living in a rental proprety.