I can't really tell. Clotilde Soupert?????????????

MichaelAT

Clothilde Soupert doesn't sucker. Sounds like a rambler.

Look at those leaves! NINE leaves to a set!

Jeri

Jeri,

what does that mean?
Inquiring minds want to know LOL :)

marleah

Well, in modern roses, 5-leaflet leaves are most common.
In quite some older types, we see 7-leaflet leaves.
But 9-leaflet leaves are a good deal less-common -- so that characteristic would be a good thing to take into consideration in identification.
I would very much like to see the stipules up close.

Jeri

glad to oblige...

uh...

what's a stipule?

(I love roses, just sometimes don't have a clue!)

"Stipule" is a term from botanical anatomy (so also are "leaf", "stem", "root", "bud", etc.)

The stipule is at the base of the leaf, right where it joins the stem. You see that portion of the leaf that looks like a pair of phlanges, or wings, right alongside the leaf stem?

Those are the stipules. Their length and the shape of their margins are often used to distinguish one rose from another.

(Oh, and nine leaflets is more common on a wild rose (a species) than it is on a garden hybrid.)

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And the zig-zag stems......
does the reddish tint to the leaflet stems persist?
Does it rebloom?

And how large are the blooms?

Jeri

I don't think it re-blooms, & the flowers are about 1" across.

The red stems are on the new growth.

The only rose I could find with nine leaves was rosa multiflora. Did a google on nine leaved thornless rose. Some types of rosa multiflora are thornless, did you know? I didn't.
I've been doing some reading about rosa multiflora hybrids since Jon posted that lovely picture of Bleu Magenta last winter. I've got a Madame Hardy that sprouts its rootstock along with it every year. I didn't get it cut off last fall. All winter I've studied it and came to the conclusion it was the most cold hardy rose on the place.
Here's a website which describes rosa multiflora. I didn't have the patience to open all the hybrid multifloras at help me find looking for yours. And could be wrong, anyway.

Here is a link that might be useful: rosa multiflora

To be honest, it reminds me a bit of 'Lady Carolina.' But I'm not sure if LC has the nine-leaflets characteristic. I will go look in the morning.

Jeri

This looks very similar to my mystery white climber that has been for me totally disease resistant and a continuous blooming machine. I'll check to see whether it has the nine-leaf configuaration today.

Robert

Another rose sometimes described as thornless and nine leaved is rosa blanda. All the pics I found had less than nine, and the flowers mostly pink.
I did find a scientific website with lists of scientific papers and studies on rosa multiflora.
All kinds of stuff has been done to this rose, including giving it rose rosette disease, attempting to kill it at zone two, if you want to read through the descriptions. And there were a bunch of named cultivars used for rootstock.
The thing I observed about rosa multiflora hybrids is the flowers bloom in clusters, usually. Yours doesn't. (MULTI-Flora.....

Here is a link that might be useful: scientific studies

I've got two Lady Carolinas from the Jeremias' back yard. I just counted and both are seven-leaflet makers, all over the plants.
As I recall, LC's blooms have more petals, but that could come with age. And until mine put on size, mine were....I think...once bloomers, but when they got dense and about three feet tall, then the bloom stepped up significantly.

Are you interested in taking cuttings and sending them around the country for some of us to try to propagate and identify? If so, I am game for Texas!

Allison

Could we get a ruling on whether the stipules (flanges at the base of leaf stems) are fringed? I can't tell from the pictures.

Hey Deb, root you some of that multiflora and use it to grow petticoats on your apple trees, in lieu of Mme Plantier. People used to plant it as a climber for the wafting fragrance, even if it only blooms two weeks. Elizabeth Lawrence writes about it in A Southern Garden.

I think I see puny little fringes, much like those on LC.
And I'd be happy to send some rooted slips of my LC around later, for comparisons in different climates.

ANN SAID:I think I see puny little fringes, much like those on LC.

*** I think so, too. Also a bit like some I've seen on SOME Polyanthas.

Jeri

Hey, Mike-where have you been, hmmm? All my apple trees got killed by the scale. It came here in California cars, and we had an epidemic.
Death, destruction, mayhem. all part of normal gardening.
I'm planting weeping birches now. The little scale things do not bother them.
I went and looked up all the rosa multiflora whose names I recognized. Came up with Moonlight, also known as Trier.

Here is a link that might be useful: Moonlight

I agree. It looks like a Moonlight I used to have. Unfortunately, I killed it :( and didn't pay attention to the leaf sets back then.

About the suckering: I've never had any HMusks sucker nor do my multiflora hybrids. And I really wish they would.

Like many others on this forum, I'm intimately familiar with the wild R. multiflora, and that picture is NOT the species! The flowers of the species are white, single, small, and in large clusters - not at all like the pictures of this one in bloom.

I thought it may be Moonlight, but, I checked both Moonlight and my white myster rose...each has 7 leaflets, not 8...

Robert

Here's a rose Euphrosne with some leaf close-ups for comparison. I wasn't having any luck figuring out if there were nine leaves, though. Euprosne is pink.
Looking back at the mystery rose photos, I see a few thorns and a tendency to form clusters which might get better if the plant was larger and in the ground.
I looked up Bobbie James which is a wichurana/multiflora cross, but it didn't look right.
Those leaves look shiny to me, like a wichurana.
I'm wondering if the mystery rose has a scent, because wichurana is scentless, usually, isn't it?
You know, I've never seen a multiflora in bloom. Sometimes you find some rootstock coming up in somebody's yard. Never does a thing. Never dies, either, without some effort.
Makes me wonder. There are some plants you try to grow here, they'll finally bloom about a week before the first frost.
Dr. Van Fleet and American Pillar bloom here in July.

Here is a link that might be useful: Euphrosne

Multiflora has a stealth bloom. It's a bloom here that's early May (after the spring earliest blooming yellows) but well before gallicas, centifolias, damasks, and way before setigera.
I call it a stealth bloomer because you watch it and see all these opulent panicles appear and just as they open, the newest canes (that will make the bush even bigger next year) emerge from the super-gum-drop-shaped mound that is a freely growing multiflora. Often the vibrant yellow green new growth overwhelms the short lived multiflora blooms and the blooms become shaded background.
Multiflora also has anthers that brown on day two of the petal opening, so there's none of the vibrant yellow centers that I prefer to deadish brown centers.

Ok, my head is spinning!

It's late in the afternoon, & I've got several must-do things tonight, but I'll take more photos tomorrow AM & try to detect a fragrance.

I once had multiflora in a number of places, really loved the springtime bloom, but then I learned about RRV & it scared the bejeebers out of me, so I dug it all up.

a couple of times...

Yes, I'd be happy to take cuttings & send them out.

The picture looks a lot like Boule de Neige to me, a Bourbon rose I had growing through my port wine magnolia in australia.

'Boule de Neige' has 5-leaflet sets though... at least mine does, I just checked. :-)

Oh no -- NOT Boule de Niege. I'd know that one. The foliage is quite different.

Jeri Jennings

That multiflora rootstock is just beginning to leaf out. So far, looks like seven leaves. Can't tell for sure yet, though.
Here's another one I've heard of. Small bloom(one inch, remember), strong fragrance, but I'm only counting 7 leaves.
If your friend bought her Ducher mail order, you could go back and check the catalogue for multiflora types. Could have been mislabeled.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thalia