Thanks so much for all your helpful responses! I knew it was a good choice to ask here. This espaliering idea sounds very enticing =] I've never heard of it, I'll be sure to read up about it. I really like persimmons and would love to have one, but thought there was no way I would have room for one. Is any particular type of rootstock required for it (semi-dwarf or dwarf), or is a regular tree fine for the purpose? I am attaching an aerial view of my house, right side is North (amazing what the internet gives you these days): 1. Location of presumed apricot tree. 2. Now I am thinking of planting the Red Baron peach in this location to give it some breathing room. I think it would look more aesthetic a little removed from the apricot. What are your ideas? About 6 feet to the right is a flower bed directly next to the wall and I was thinking of also planting a Washington Navel semi-dwarf or dwarf there. But maybe that would be a good location for the espaliered persimmon instead. 3. I was thinking of planting a kumquat in this patch, do you think it would be a good idea? Backyardener, in those pictures the backyard indeed looks dim and wet, but during the day the side depicted gets a lot of sun and is quite bright, and then lawn had just been watered hence the wetness. I'm hoping I'll be able to pull of some of these trees (fingers crossed). Do you think it's possible to prune that old unruly grapevine all the way down to the trunk and re-train it? I'll take your advice and probably use a 4-arm Kniffin training. mudflapper, thanks for the blueberry tips. I'm a little discouraged that they won't have optimal conditions since they seem to be picky plants, but after paying $40 for both of them I'm damn well gonna try getting them to grow. glenn_russel, some really great ideas, I was thinking about raised beds too. I'll have to see just how and where I could implement them. ashleysf, wooooow that is impressive. 25 types of fruit! Thanks for the link, some really interesting ideas on that website with planting four trees in the same area and keeping them trimmed to a manageable size. tagtail, thanks a lot for the fruit tree list! I like the Fuyu persimmon choice, always ended up eating the Hachiya ones early and getting that nasty astringent throat. I'm impressed you were able to tell I have a fig tree in the background. When we first got the house I actually thought it was a guava for a while until I googled some pictures =) So you would pick espaliered fruit trees over grapes? I'm definitely excited about the idea and would like to try it on at least one tree, but I also don't really want to throw all five of my grapes away. Maybe I'll mix and match. How young of a tree should I get for espaliering? I'm guessing rootstock is preferable? Up till now I have been buying potted containers.

Fruitnut, The folks that own the orchard very kindly gave me a "tasting tour" yesterday and I was very surprised at how much difference there is between varieties. Until yesterday, I thought "a blueberry was a blueberry" but I was wrong! We started on one row then moved to the next and the next. Reka has a tart flavor, something like a huckleberry which I really like. Toro was much sweeter, I liked it too. Some varities were actually too sweet for my liking, Olympia for example. Duke was kind of run of the mill but still good. I probably tried at least 10 different varieties and there was a huge difference in the taste from one to the next.........most were excellent though. I'm not sure a plant as big as these could be grown in a pot, maybe I'm wrong but these plants are huge! Like I said, some are 8 feet tall and probably 5 feet wide, they are huge! I can't imagine a plant getting that large in a pot but again, maybe I'm wrong. I was in the orchard again this morning, the amount of berries is phenomenal. He said they get 6000 to 7000 pounds per acre after the birds, deer, and turkeys take their share. RM

I may be way off but I think it may be a Redbay tree. Rub the leaves and see if you get the smell of bay. It is a member of the Laurel family and is being threatened in Ga, North Florida and the Carolinas by the Ambrosia Beetle. You may notice some leaves that have a funny curl part to them. If so this is a Gall of somesort but it won't hurt the tree. If it isn't Redbay then it still may be a part of the Bay family. We planted a Redbay as a host to Spicebush/Palamdes Butterfly. But afterwards discovered that they prefer the Camphor trees that come up as volunteers in our yard. (I know they are invasive but we keep one or two trimmed back so that they have new growth to lay eggs on.) If you do have a Redbay or other member of that family, there is a group in Ga that collect the seeds in the fall to plant to get seedlings to replace the ones destroyed by the beetle. I ended up sending some seeds to a guy in Houston and he grew some to plant in the last native plant park inside the loop around Houston. They are a native plant there but they are very hard to find as seedlings. Hope this helps. Let me know if I am right.

While you are waiting for an expert to respond, I'll throw in my two cents: My intial take is that it is not a highbush blueberry (Vaccinium corymbosum), because of the color of the berries. V. corymbosum also has an interesting bark - it looks like a dark brown or tan bark has been stripped away in segments to show a lighter underbark -- there is something muscular or shredded looking about it. But I'm not sure this isn't true for other members of the family. The location is right for V. corymbosum, but it's also right for other berry-making plants, such as various native and non-native buckthorns (the non-natives are invasive) and the huckleberries. I believe buckthorns are toothless (at least the European is), while blueberries and huckleberries have toothed leaves. The general rule with the color of blueberries and huckleberries is that blueberries are more blue than black and huckleberries are more black than blue. Also, blueberry seeds are numerous and tiny, so you don't notice them when you eat the berry, while huckleberries (at least Gaylussacia baccata) have a small number of larger seeds, and you notice them. I live in eastern Mass. and have noticed in some wetter (but not swampy) areas, a lot of dangleberry shrubs (Gaylussacia frondosa?), a huckleberry, that may match your plant: black berries, toothed leaves (I think) and larger than some of the smaller huckleberries and blueberries (I think - wasn't clear from description). My only question is the wavy white line on the berries, which doesn't seem to fit with my understanding of either blueberries or huckleberries. As I said, I'm not an expert, so I hope someone will jump in and correct me if I've led you wrong. -- wd