I planted bands from Heirloom in Miracle Gro Organic potting soil last year. I just planted them in the ground and they had very strong root systems. So I just picked up some more to plant the 12 bands I just got from Vintage. The MG potting mix (Organic) was very fluffy, almost like flour.

I also have two Glamis Castles in large pots. I used the same soil. Both are own root and are putting out quite a lot of suckers and will probably fill up the pot. At that point, I may plant them in the ground.

I think when keeping plants in pots, I'd use more synthetic fertilizers than organic. You can easily improve the soil in a potted plant by re-potting it.

Miracle Gro Moisture Control or ProMix. Soil compacts too much in the containers.

I use the same fertilizers in the pots that I do for those in the ground, including Holly-tone or Mills Magic Mix, alfalfa and fish emulsion.

McEnroe potting soil is what you want. It comes from Amenia. There are two varieties, regular, which is pretty much straight organic compost, and 'lite', which is the regular cut with perlite. If nobody carries it where you are, our Agway has it. I usually mix it with water crystals, and sometimes Osmocote, depending on exactly what I'm doing with it.

The water retention properties of anything peat based are going to be weird. The compost is much easier to deal with.

The best planting medium for roses in pots is a soiless mix like Fafard #2 or the like. Soil tends to become compacted, whereas the soiless mixes stay more open so that oxygen can still get to the roots. Also, the soiless mixes allow you to control the types of fertilizer you want to give your roses, instead of being at the mercy of the manufacturer of the mix, who may not have clue as to what roses like or require.

I have 7 roses I purchased last year and have then in pots all are own root as well. I only use MG potting mix and I starting this year off with feeding them and my other roses in the ground with Good Morning Roses from the Peter Beales Natural Rose Care program. They are growing and all are starting to boom with lots of buds.

good garden soil is usually very heavy for potted plants in my experience. I don't like soiless mixes either nor do I like peat based potting soils. I usually use shredded or ground pine bark well composted mixed with something similar to Promix but a different brand - cannot recall it right now and it is too dark to go outside to check. If the plant is not a new bareroots I mix in some Osmocote. Lately, since drought has become a problem I add dissolved polymer crystals. Ann has a super online vendor for it.

I love SCHULTZ POTTING SOIL PLUS. It has a light and fluffy texture that allows oxygen and water to move through it quickly and the roots grow freely...

Here is a link that might be useful: Schultz Potting Soil

No you certainly can't use garden soil in pots.

I buy a big bale of Pro Mix every year. They usually have this at nurseries or Agways.

Don't forget to fertilize either. Because there are no earthworms or micro organisms in the potting mix, and because they get watered often, flushing out nutrients, you need to keep up on fertilizing. Osmocote will do with monthly or so boosts of something like Miracle Grow or liquid fish emulsion.

But be careful if you go with the Miracle Gro potting soil, or some other soil that already has fertilizer in it. Then you will need to fertilize much less if at all.

Potting soils should be produced locally. Use your local brand. We in California have SuperSoil, a fairly consistent product with only minimal fertilizer, which is what I want. But contrary to the experience of others, all my pots have worms.

Good advice! I just re-potted all of my new bands. They were drowning in my heavy compost that they were planted in.

Daun

I was about to go on another search of my rose books for anything written about pots and roses. Not only soil but how big a pot?

On my first search I found nothing. I posted also on one of my threads asking about pot size and also nothing.

So how big. For a floribunda, for a small HT, for a bigger shrub?

For all, the biggest pots you can afford that are lightweight.

I have been purchasing those lightweight styrofoam or composite faux terra-cotta or faux cement pots. Sometimes they don't have holes in the bottom and you have to drill them yourself. I also have several large real terra cotta pots that are beautiful but extremely heavy. This is a disadvantage as we can't leave the terra cotta outside in the winter--it will crack and crumble when the weather gets below freezing. So all pots have to be moved, and let me tell you, even those lightweight pots are heavy enough with soil/plants in them, let alone try moving a large filled terra cotta pot.

You need big pots unless you plan on watering them sometimes twice a day. The smaller the pot, the quicker it dries out. Also, the rose's root system will eventually get bigger than any of the smaller pots and will need to be transplanted within a year. So start with the bigger pots.

As far as material, you also have to remember you'll be overwintering the roses/pots in your greenhouse, which can go below freezing. Any clay pot might crack and crumble. All my real terra cotta pots and urns I have to bring into the garage for the winter, potted or empty, so they don't freeze.

I have picked up some nice-looking large lightweight pots at both Target and Walmart. We have a chain out here called the Christmass Tree Shops that has tasteful faux clay pots that go on super clearance after spring, but I don't think you have those out in NY.

I have used Sunshine #4 mix exclusively over the last 6 years.

I never use garden soil for reasons of compaction, poor drainage, poor aeration, excessive weight, and weeds.

Garden soil is too heavy and the pots will not drain well and roses don't like to sit with wet feet.

I have 30 some permanently potted roses and all are in what ever was on sale or the least expensive potting soil I could find when I potted them up. I fertilize them exactly the same way and the same time I fertilze my rose bed. I use Rose Tone (Holly Tone is the same thing and cheaper if you can find it) in the spring with some Superthrive and then any good balanced fertilizer once a month through August. I also foliar feed in between with Spray n Grow and Bill's Perfect Fertilizer (fish emulsion) and Superthrive. They are all still alive and thriving after three years now.

Yes, do use light weight (plastic is fine) BIG pots and I have mine on those wheeled (4 wheels are less tippy than 3) pot trolleys to make them easier to move around. No matter what size you get eventually you will have to root prune your potted roses. But if you get big enough pots that will be at least 3 years down the road.

veilchen

I agree about those pots that have nice design looking like ceramic, etc but are made of what, foam plastic?

On size, what size for a small floribunda say 3x3? A shrub or HT 5x3 or a climber?

I've had it with garden soil no matter what you amend it with.

Looked at the Schulz Potting Mix Plus, well the back of the bag that is. It is not a soilless mix but maybe potting mixes have progressed. Will give it a try.

Oh no..I have potted three roses in compost with mushroom mix. Maybe it is going to be too heavy for my pots? I am in seattle. If I have to change it at least I just have 3 so far. All floribunda's.

Does anyone use Bayer's all in one for pot roses? If so, how much to apply?

I have 7 roses from small to large in pots. The nursery where I buy my roses told me to do the following. Start roses in smaller pots and after the first year repot them in to a pot that is at least 20". I buy the large plastic pots (20" dia x about 18" tall). These can be found at Lowes or HD and they work great, plus I can move them around with out help. Just make sure you remove the bottom catch tray. I always use MG potting mix and of course fertilizer. This year I started with the Peter Beales Natural Rose Care Program and all my roses are busting out with blooms and buds all over.

At least a 5 gallon pot, 10 gallon is ideal... If you plan on leaving the rose in the pot for all eternity, the bigger the pot the better...

If you do go with the pots that are made out of polyurethane instead of ceramic, put extra holes in the bottom with a drill... sometimes they just don't put enough holes... and those lightweight pots are great for moving but they don't allow any oxygen movement unlike ceramic or peat pots... so you have to be more careful with drainage...

For super big pots for roses/hydrangea etc... I prefer wooden pots, they breath, they are lightweight and the water evaporates through the wood as well as draining through the bottom...

I use the cheapest potting soil i can find-happens to be supersoil here. Then i layer in some organics in the pot-blood meal, bone meal, alfalfa pellets. Used to mix it with the potting soil first but too much trouble. I've done this with bareroots and when potting one gallon bands up to a 3 gallon pot. Seems to work well.

Rose society here suggests 15 gallon pots, minimum, for HTs. Maybe some of those whiskey barrels would work. I've even seen them made out of polyurethane but they were a little spendy. Good luck!

I Goggled sizes of containers, growing plants in containers and any way I could think of to find out or rather translate inches of diameter to gallons or cubic feet. I couldn't find anything. And here on GW no one seems to know what size for a small floribunda say 3x3 or a bigger rose 5x5. Or even a climber.

I guess I'm just going to try dumping something into a pot and measuring the volume. And then try various sizes of pot with different sizes of rose.

It seems there are few people that grow roses in containers.

They make potting soil for a reason. It's made for potted plants. Garden soil is for the garden. I don't think some compost would hurt a potted plant, but I don't think you should plant something in a pot with just compost.

The beauty of potted plants is that you can repot them every year or other year and replace all the soil to refresh it.

As far as pot size goes, I have 2 Glamis Castle in a pot that measures 14 inches wide on top. It is one of those foam pots that looks like stone. It makes it much lighter to handle. These are small roses that started out as own root and are quickly filling up the pot so I may have to repot. You can also root prune potted plants if they get root bound, so you don't have to keep getting a bigger pot.

Each rose is different, so there is really no way to tell what size pot for a generic rose.

What you have to be careful with potting climbers is that they will get tall, you're going to need additional support and make sure the pot doesn't get top heavy. I have some tall rubber plants in foam pots and they will blow over on a windy day.

Thanks Buford. We're making progress!

Now even I can grow Austin's and so many z6 roses that before I've shied away from.

I made a small spot for them. A place where many HT's have met there death in the past, even Marie Pavie. I used left over asphalt shingles layered over the whole patch to keep out weeds. And am beginning to cover it with "native" rocks of middling size which occur around here in abundance. Beginning to look nice. Then I have on order some smallish roses, I know a lot of Kordes, but some others, Meilland and Tantau. One I'm particularly looking foward to is a Modern HT by Meilland, Andre le Notre. It's is the biggest said to be 4'x3'. I already have 4 in pots unfortunately planted in garden soil in those awful plastic pots. 3 of them Wal*Mart HT's and one climber, Santana by Tantau.

Next fall I need to repot them using good potting soil and some better pots.

OK Jim I just went outside and measured my rose pots for you. They are average 15" tall x 20" wide. I would say that would be the minimum size for any of your roses. If you are going to grow a 5x 5 rose or a climber, I would go with bigger pots.

Use anything labeled "potting soil" even if it doesn't say "soilless mix". I have a lot of pots and if I run out of Pro Mix I will get what's cheapest as I need a lot. The cheaper stuff works fine.

I'm growing a "Sombreuil" in a 24" ceramic pot....I used MG potting mix only and fertilize with Rosetone though I didn't use it from the get go as MG had some fertilizer in it to begin with...I started out with a one gallon potted plant from where I get my roses.. (Petals From The Past - Jemison,Ala.)....I know its a big rose for a pot but I'm going to give it a try. Going to train it up the post on the corner of my back porch and then just under and along the outside of the roof overhang. Wish me luck.....:)

Paul from Alabama

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:246490}}

Jim, just remember that potted plants will need to be watered, probably everyday in the hot summer, especially if they are in a sunny location. I usually put my pots on a plastic dish that can be filled with water, so that the pot can draw moisture from it if necessary.

I have to get two pots for the rose trees I just ordered. I'm actually considering the wooden box type they put Japanese Maples in. I'm lucky I can probably keep these outside year round, unless it goes down below 20, which is rarely does.

Speaking of compacting, the Pickering info sheet tells you to stamp down the soil/mix with your foot. Seems like that would be very compacted. I guess they are concerned about air pockets. I just used the Miracle Gro Moisture Control and really packed it down.

??

I too am puzzled by the common advice to stamp down on the soil after planting to eliminate air pockets. Then I read about pottings' soil attribute of providing air spaces for roots to respire. I suppose in the case of planting those air pockets of concern are major ones, fist sized, etc and potting's soils are tiny. Yet it does raise questions.

Oh, I NEVER do that! I just water and then add more mix to fill in as needed.

I do make sure to thoroughly wet the mix before using it (you especially have to do this with ProMix to expand the material).

Martha Stewart says not to stamp. You can lightly step on the loose soil to compress it and eliminate big air pockets. but the soil shouldn't be stamped down.

You can also fill the newly planted hole with water which should also compress the soil somewhat and then you can add more if necessary.

I've never heard of stamping down the soil. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. I press the soil in gently with my hands and then will "drop" (pick up the pot an inch or so and drop it back down) the pot several times to settle it before watering well.

Like settling batter in a cake pan.

I didn't stamp it even though it said to. But I did press it fairly hard with my hands. Hope that is okay.

What happened to all that microrganisms, earth worms, organic matter mumbo gumbo!

Physics.

Soils are very complicated ecosystems, but at their heart they are tiny bits of rock stacked against and atop one another, mixed together with lots of tiny and not so tiny bits of dead, rotting plant and animal tissue.

The spaces between those rocks (the "pores") are where water and air collect. How easily water drains away is a direct function of how deep this stack of rock is (the "soil column"). The deeper the column, the smaller the pore spaces that will still drain away and fill with air as the water leaves. Roots need more than water. They also need that air because roots breathe, as well as drink in water.

When you put that garden soil in a pot you dramatically shorten the soil column. As a consequence the pore spaces of the garden soil are now too small to allow water to drain out. Without the drainage the roots don't get air and the plant dies when its roots suffocate.

That's why you have to switch to a different soil medium. In a big pot (such as one that holds several gallons of soil mix) you can use a small amount of garden soil if you're making your own potting soil mix, but even then you run the risk of introducing soil pathogens that aren't as easily fought off by the plant because of the change in drainage characteristics caused by the pot itself.

That's why once you use a container it's also usually recommended that you go with a soilless potting mix.

york rose

I meant to say mumbo jumbo.

Anyway good analysis.

Come to think of it I don't remember much said about the fact that roots need air. Why not?

Oh and soil less mixes. Checked out our local Agway and it seems they don't carry such. Wonder if they have become superseded by something more modern. The Schulz mixture, I forget its' name, seems the closest but still seems to contain other stuff not to mention fertilizer.

Jim, they're all "soil less". It's just that not all of them say so on the bag. Your Agway probably has Pro Mix, ask for that. Or a store brand that's comparable to Pro Mix.

You're looking for peat-based stuff with perlite (those little white things that look like styrofoam). Any of them will do. Whether or not the potting soil has fertilizer or not isn't very relevant, other than the first year you might want to fertilize less. But by next year the fert. will be used up and you will have to add fert. as usual.

The only "bad" potting soil I ever bought was some cheap stuff from Walmart, forget the name on the bag. It seemed more dense and compacted a lot more than other potting soils. But even then, I planted two boxwood in containers with it and they are doing fine after 3 years.

Maybe.

We, meaning Jim and I, have access to things the rest of you don't. Given the current cost of fuel, it's a lot cheaper to ship bulk stuff from a few exits down the Taconic (even if it actually can't get on the Taconic) than from Canada, or Nebraska or somewhere else. So it's quite possible that the Agway doesn't have that expensive, inferior, foreign 'potting mix'. I'm not sure that my Agway did yesterday. The big chains will have it because they don't have the connections to get the local quality products.

Jim, Loomis Creek is open for the season. Have you ever been there? They do a lot with temperennials, but also have some interesting perennials. Their plant lists are on the web.

The reason you can't trust the volume of nursery pots, Jim, is that those black nursery containers are all "nominal" sizes. That means the volume of the pots is vaguely related to the stated gallon size. A "5 galllon" nursery can is 10.5 in. diameter and 12 in. tall. My online calculator says that is only 3.75 gallons if you pot 2 inches from the top of the pot. That isn't large enough for any rose past the first year or so if it puts on vigorous growth.

The foot stomping is an old landscaper practice. It's just a cheap way of determining settlement without taking the time to water a plant in. I wouldn't do it. Water your plant in to settle the soil.

I've seen people planting roses into dry potting soil. I wouldn't do it. Many potting soils have peat moss which sheds water once dry. Those of you in climates with steady rain year round may not have this problem, but in the desert West, once peat dries out, it takes a concerted effort to dampen it. I open the bag of soil, stick the hose in, fill it up and mix. Then I pot with dripping wet potting soil and also water it in. It's mud pies for grownups. It assures that the soil comes to the optimal height in the pot (about 2 inches down) and fills major air pockets. I unpot roses all the time and have never found an air pocket. I don't drop pots on purpose.

Our summers are too hot to grow a lot of roses in pots well. We can't keep the roots cool enough through June and July. I overpot extensively. A 3 x 3 rose goes in an ornamental pot that is 22-24 inches high. I use various decorative pots from the big box store and always buy the biggest size. Why? They bring to rose up to height and look more in scale with a landscape. It's funny how a pot looks big in a store and miniature in the garden. Also, with those big pots I'm approaching the 15 gallon actual size I find any healthy rose needs. I do a seat of the pants volume-of-cone calculation to guesstimate the volume of the pot, taking into consideration the potting soil is probably 3 inches from the top of the container. Here's a nice online volumetric calculator. http://www.online-calculators.co.uk/volumetric/conevolume.php

i just recently got a revelation about this very question; most of my 40 roses are in containers, and many of them are not doing as well as the ones in the ground, or the ones in huge pots. turns out that a master rosarian took my struggling green ice basket to his greenhouse after he told me it was my soil was too heavy . he said he would prove to me what the issue was. all he did was change the soil- sunshine 4 and a little osmocote in the greenhouse. two weeks and the thing was unrecognizable; i was shocked and realized that probably the rest of my small pots were gonna be in trouble. i have spent the last week repotting some of the suspect roses with the lighter sunshine 4 cut with about one part to 4 with MG organic or moisture control soil. a little bloodmeal and a little bonemeal. who knew? i wondered why some of my roses were smaller than the average and faded out in color... turns out there was root rot going on in the heavy garden soil compacted in the containers. also- you need lots of drainage holes, not just one in the center. you'd be surprised at how important this initial step is; if i only knew then what i know now...

In places my garden "soil" is much like a pot. 10 or 12" deep. No wonder roses don't grow there. Except something like Rugosa Alba that will grow out of a crack in a stone wall. That 12" of soil is exactly like a pot in the fact that the capillary action that pulls water through the column of soil is missing.

Many thanks for those comments about pot size. Pity my 4 roses planted in garden soil in 14 or 16" pots. Will fix that this fall. Meanwhile the new ones will go into something bigger with "good" soil.

Now all those recommending big pots like Berndoodle may have not noticed that I plan to over winter them in my greenhouse which means schlepping sp? those big heavy things from here to there. I will do exercises for my back!

I tried to use Berndoodle's link and it didn't work for me. So I delved into an old chemistry book. It gave a formula for calculating the volume of a cylinder.

.0034 x diameter squared in inches x depth in inches.

So a 14" inch pot that is 12" deep is 8 gallons. A 16" ten gallons.

To convert to cu. ft multipy the number of gallons by 231 (cubic inches in a gallon) then divide by 1728 (cubic inches in a cubic foot).

So a 14" pot will take a cubic foot of potting mix, soil.

After the success of overwintering potted roses in a ditch, under leaves, I am probably going to indulge in more pots. There are 17 now...one more due from Ashdown...

Anyway - I use big cheap plastic pots, and Promix. Most were new last year, with the exception of a few geriatric survivors of an abandoned bed. Things survived, and most blossomed a bit. But - what I didn't do, and will do so this year, is fertilize more frequently.
So - need to go to Agway to get fertilizer - and oh gee, the Mother's Day roses are in....