Alcea rosea(Hollyhocks) these get a bit taller than five feet, but create a dramatic impact. Salvia transylvanica 'Blue Spires' is also a tough plant blooms a nice cool blue. Papaver(poppies) are also great for the center, as they go dormant in late summer.

Nice suggestions. That made me think of one more requirement......summertime bloom period instead of spring.

I'd worry about hollyhocks simply because the foliage gets so ratty as summer goes on. How about meadow rue (thalictrum) or veronicastrum?

Here's another thought, How about a shrub, Leycesteria formosa, Himalayan Honeysuckle. With this shrub you would get the height you're looking for and it's not a wide grower, Flowers white in purple bracts, blooms July August, purple-black berries in the fall. After the leaves have fallen, the canes look like sea green Bamboo. One of my favorites.

A......

Trumpet lilies - 6-8 feet tall and yummy . . .
hibiscus moscheutos

why not shrub or conifer? Viburnum Cardinal Candy grows to 5 feet tall, has great flowers in spring and beautiful red berries in late summer, also nice leaves color change in the fall.
Sambucus can also be treated as perennial and cut to the ground every spring- plumosa aurea has excellent leaves shape and color. Black lace is another good one.
You can also put clematis group III over your shrub and get even more interest that way.

How about a nice ornamental grass?

Calamagrostis x acutiflora 'Karl Foerster' is a stunning upright cool season grass which will bloom purplish/green in June, and hold it's blooms right through winter. The foliage will hit 3' in height, and the plumes push up to 6'. The only maintenance it requires is a haircut to 4-5" in late winter. It expands slowly, and will not reseed. It's a great grass.

These are all wonderful suggestions. Honestly, I had really been thinking of using Veronicastrum virginicum 'Fascination' based on things I had read on this forum. After reading more about it elsewhere, however, I'm not sure it could handle full sun, 90+ degree temps, and high humidity for an extended period. It would seem in hotter zones it would need more of a morning sun, afternoon shade combo. Anyone in my type of zone grow this with success?

The Leycesteria formosa is a new plant for me. It looks wonderful, but I think I would like it better in my shrub/tree border. This island bed will be mostly plants with tidy, albeit contrasting, forms and this plant looks more woodland and natural in form. Which I do love by the way, just not for this bed.

Trumpet lillies sound nice, I'll have to think about that.

I love the shrub suggestions also, I have considered that, but due to size and the fact that a mixed shrub/tree border wraps around this bed I want to stick with perennials. This bed is just for non-stop color during summer. Same with ornamental grasses, I have them in nearbye borders.

Thank you for all of the suggestions, keep them coming.

How about one of the Cimifuga's, Cimifuga simplex ramosa var. atropurpurea 1.5 meters by 1 meter in spread. Tolerates a wide range of conditions, the more sun the darker the foliage, white flowers. Cimifuga simplex ramosa 'Brunette', 2 meters in height, purple black foliage, white flowers and lovely fragrance, I have this one, love it.

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I order Salvia 'Indigo Spires' every year and treat it as an annual, which it might be even in your zone. But it starts blooming for me in late June and continues until frost, at which time it is four feet hight and wide. A great plant.

I don't know about heat tolerance in your zone, but how about Eupatorium 'Gateway'. It might get too tall (6ft), but you can always prune in spring to produce a shorter, more branched plant. Other suggestions: a nice blue Echinops or tall Phlox such as 'David'.

Ok, this is going to sound really weird. What I have in the center of one of my beds as a real eye-catcher is... Scottish Thistle. Six to seven feet tall, loves summer heat, hairy, silver, spikey foliage, very architectural. It's the one most people ask about when they see my garden. I've actually had people ring the bell to ask what it is (and why I grow it!). Had a Scotsman stop me in the street and actually thank me for growing it! We're clan Buchanan. Certainly wouldn't work for everyone and not in a formal bed but works for me ;o)
Must deadhead regularly!

{{gwi:201423}}
Audaces juvo!

How about ricinus communis- castor bean plant? It will be most likely annual/ might reseed/ for you but very easily grown from seed- takes all the sun and heat and looks like small tree- very very elegant. Castor bean comes in purple leaved variety, and huge leaves- zanzibar variety. Very impressive if you have space for show.

If you can't find a plant that you like for that particular spot, how about an obelisk, I have seen some lovely wrought iron obelisks in different garden settings. I will keep the thinking cap on but I'm sure somebody will come up with a plant that will be perfect for you.

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Hi Jim! I thought it might be better to answer this here than in an email.

Veronicastrum probably would be a good choice but you might well be right to be concerned about the heat and humidity of the south. I am handicapped in my answer to your question because what might well succeed for me in Michigan might tank out in SC. One thing to remember is that V. virginicum is a native plant to the eastern US. You might check on the range maps for that plant or see if there is a flora of SC web site to see if it occurs in the south as a native (outside of the mountains). If it does, chances are good that it would be OK with enough moisture.

Larger grasses would be obvious choices if not a bit mundane (OK, yes grass fans, I just shot myself in the foot...).

Persicaria polymorpha is an excellent large scale shrubby perennial with a long season. I know it does well in the DC area (as up here) so I bet it would be fine in the south.

But if it were me, I would want to grow things that excel in the south that can't be grown up north. How about a smaller crape myrtle? long season, winter interest with bark and fruit and sturcture. I'd love to be able to grow them.

Or how about some of the salvias which are tender for us but would excel in your climate? S. guaranitica, S. leucantha, S. mexicana 'Limelight',....the list goes on and on.

I would be careful about using many large perennials in this kind of spot, unless they bloom in late summer and autumn. There are very few large scale spring and early or even mid summer bloomers that will keep their appearance up through the whole season. Even long show-ers like Persicaria polymorpha get ratty. You don't want your centerpiece to look ratty, ever. That's the advantage of shrubs like crape myrtles. Vitex, a large sub shrub and long bloomer, would be a great choice and will definitely grow in the south. The commonest color is lavendar blue, or pink.

The obelisk idea brings me to the obvious choice for me -- a clematis growing on a large obelisk. You will wait for 2-3 years for a good show. But then they will produce for years. Try Huldine, a super white clematis that produces 1000s of white flowers through a season, and keeps its good looks, or Betty Corning, a fabulous display of lavendar bells for months. You will start with a smaller obelisk and then graduate it up as the plant gets bigger and bigger.

I have Russian sage in the middle of a sunny border bed like you describe. I hadn't planned on it being the focal point, mainly because where I had planted it before, it never got much more than 2 1/2 feet tall. Here it quickly grew to about 4' or maybe a bit more, and I love the cool blue. Normally the airy feel wouldn't make it a focal point, but the blue really draws the eye.

There are pretty pink blooming cannas. Cannas are hardy for me in zone 7 plus they love heat, sun and humidity as long as they get enough moisture.

Another thistle suggestion: Cynara cardunculus (Cardoon). Stunning, jagged silver foliage and large purple thistle flowers late in the season.

I am excited about all of the suggestions as I am being sent in search of plants I'm not that familiar with.

Cannas do quite well here, so well in fact that they spread extremely fast. I have a 'stand' of Cannas in tropical color ranges in another area and love them. Wouldn't play nicely enough in this limited space though.

It is funny that David mentions planting things only southern gardeners can get away with and he lists Crape Myrtle as a suggestion. I love them and they are beautiful, but in my town they literally blanket the landscape. Businesses use them as much as Indian Hawthorne down here for their landscaping and so we have streets lined with them. They are in every 3rd yard also. So I love them, but like to stick with things I don't see so much of. 'Grass is always greener' kinda thing I guess as I am envious of plants that need cooler summers.

The things that I'm really mulling are the obelisk idea or the salvia (which I am sure I will do anyways in the bed somewhere). I am also toying with moving a Viburnum 'Summer Snowflake' into this spot and growing a Clematis up through it. I have seen a picture in an old thread where David at one point (old garden I think) had this combination. Does anyone know if you can keep this Viburnum relatively compact with pruning and still have it perform well? I have read that it can reach 15 feet, but I know I don't want something that large in this spot.

Me again, David's idea of a clematis growing on the obelisk sounds great, 'Betty Corning' is also scented I believe. You also can choose the kind of obelisk that suits your fancy, wrought iron, twiggy types and also copper, gets that lovely patina. By the by, have you ever grown the shrub Dichroa febrifuga, fairly new shrub from China? Hydrangea family, blue flowers, blue fruit.

A......

Betty Corning or Huldine on an onelisk are great choices for long blooming plants which would provide structure. Just be careful of ultimate size. In my garden, a 10 year old BC on a large obelisk was 10' tall and 6' across (though granted, a clematis bigwig wrote me and said it was the biggest one he had ever seen). But both of these will get quite large with time. However, in my book that would be OK. Your bed sounds plenty big enough to accomodate a large clematis on a large obelisk. And those two clematis are both very heat tolerant and will really earn their keep in terms of sheer floral production over a season. I think of them as big vining perennials, and very few other plants can match them in total flower power. It would be worth letting the plant REALLY become a centerpiece if that's how it declares itself. When I first planted BC and she got bigger and bigger and bigger, I never thought at the outset that she would be the centerpiece of that bed.

BTW, for me, BC has only a very faint scent -- one you have to stick your nose right into the flower to smell, even with 1000+ flowers open on the plant in early July (no kidding...).

But that's much of the fun of gardening -- planting things to follow your ideas, but watching and waiting and changing your ideas as the plants mature.

Often, plants know more about gardening than you do.....

;o)

At the risk of hijacking this thread I also wanted to ask David (since I recall a picture thread) and others what their favorite roses are for a perennial border. It is still related to the same garden project, so hopefully no one will mind if I swerve off into another direction....

Another hijacking, David, Asters, did you really say Asters, Michaelmas Daisies to me. I guess they are out of favor in my neck of the woods, people think I'm crazy for growing so many. I have a bed of these gorgeous fall flowers.
I love all the blues, moaves, reds, purples, whites, pinks, wines and also the yellow Solidaster lutea, the cross between Aster and Goldenrod. Maybe someone will start a thread on these beauties, I tried to on another forum, with no luck.
I grow over three dozen of these guys, a lot of the oldies like Marie Ballard, Davey's True Blue, Blandie, Percy Thrower, Ada Ballard, etc. I guess there still a few of us left that love these beautiful flowers.

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Ooops, David, I think you mentioned Asters on the Heronswood thread. I got so flustered when I heard Asters mentioned, I posted on the wrong thread. :o)

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Jim, we have the same basic issues with roses and the differences in south and north that we do with perennials. What works for me in my all-too-cold winter climate may not work for you, and vice versa. We probably have fewer (though not no...) problems with blackspot here too. I use exclusively roses in the shrub rose class, that are cane hardy in the north. Those are general the modern shrub roses, explorers, English roses, and some old garden roses. You can use a variety of hybrid musks too and even older hybrid teas that might be cane hardy.

Not all roses, by any means, can tolerate being closely planted with perennials and other plants in a mixed border setting. You have to experiment and see what works for you. There ain't no substitute in many cases for doing just that.

I'll second the 'Indigo Spires' suggestion. Mine has been an outstanding performer. Even the bare winter stalks are attractive to me.

I don't have any experience with roses yet but I would suggest that you visit Antique Rose Emporium's site. Been doing alot of wishing there lately.

I've been tempted by pictures of 'Summer Snowflake' viburnum as well but I'm not sure it would like full sun here. The Vitex is a good suggestion. If you buy one in person you can pick one with a single trunk to grow as a small tree. I'm in the process of trying to incorporate shrubs/small trees into my perennial beds to add more structure and winter interest.

Friends of mine in Wilmington, NC (Zone 7b, hot & humid,
just like you) have a stunning stand of the white Veronicastrum sited in full sun. . .and I noted that one
of my favorite suppliers in North Carolina (Niche Gardens)
suggests it's suitable as far as Zone 8. . .depending on
your palette in the rest of the bed, how about a stand
of the white mixed with just one of the colored variations - or visa versa ?

Carl

My bed is going on 2 yrs old, but for height at the center I've planted Hollyhock 'Peaches n' Dreams' and Verbena bonariensis, along with an obelisk that supports 2 types of clematis. Other taller (2.5-4 ft) perennials surrounding that grouping and running throughout the middle are campanulas, delphiniums (jury's out whether they overwintered), coneflowers, monkshood, anemones, agastache, false indigo and foxgloves. We'll see how it all looks this year, as last year was a planting year and this will be a "sit back and see what needs tweaking" year.

How about a nice banana such as zebrina or better yet Bordelon? It wouldn't have to bloom to look really amazing with the red blotched leaves.

I dont garden in your zone so I dont know if these would work there but here are the plants I grow that fit your requirements.

Shasta Daisy Becky - gets nearly 5' for me. I could make a hedge.
Helenium - August blooming is always a plus
Joe Pye - very reliable mid July into August here
Boltonia snow bank - blooms between the helenium and the asters I have
Hibiscus moscheutos - another one the blooms when other things are pooping out
Abyssinian gladiolus - dont be afraid of this gladiolus it is not like the others
Phlox David and Monarda work here but these might be problematic in the humidity

Cosmos and cleome - wrong forum and maybe you are not looking for annuals but these give my back garden height and flower mid summer until frost.

Lobelia Cardinalis is beautiful in groups, and outstanding as the star of the show. Beautiful shiny bronze red foliage and a tall bloom spike to about 4feet. Loves it hot, humid, grows well in wet soil or dry. A very tough plant, and beautiful.

Salvia Leucantha is another tough and beautiful plant. I use it a lot, definitely a favorite. It seems to like our humidity and heat, and even multiplies readily for me. Very hardy.

Esperanza is another wonderful staple for us. Brilliant yellow blooms from June to frost, nice clean foliage, it tolerates just about any condition it might be stuck in.

Janie

I grew Cardoon last year. Absolutely stunning! It was a soft grey/green, very clean. The only problem I would see with this plant is the size.

Mine grew to over 12ft wide x about 4ft tall. Friends said it could be dinosaur food.

Janie

I immediately thought of the new dwarf buddleia's - there are a couple in the blue and lavendar range that would give great summer color, and maybe some caryopteris nearby.
I have Petite Nanho Blue which has gotten to about 42", and there is a new one that has super long flower clusters - I either saw it on the Wayside website, or maybe the National Gardening Association. If you read The Avant Gardener, a newsletter, they might have mentioned some new dward budds also recently.

The other thing that would be more exotic, is Brugmansia - which you would sink in a pot to be brought in each winter.
http://mgonline.com/datura.html

Angelica gigas is a seriously architectural plant that is quite large.

Here is my island bed in the full flush of summer bloom. I've never measured its length and width but it's very large because it's our septic mound. (Hence, no shrubs or trees!) On the back side which you can't see, there's a vegetable garden. Maybe this will give you some ideas for plants.

{{gwi:201426}}

That is one gorgeous island bed. what about Acanthus...very architectual.

Perhaps a trellis type structure w/ a perennial vine like Clematis? Or a rose. I personally love clematis...and sometimes you can get a spring/summer bloom and a fall bloom.

vtandrea-that photo is stunning!!!

Thank you, Monique! I was going through my old photos stored on the computer the other day and came across this one. It made me realize that the garden has a very lush look at the end of June. Vermonters live for summer, which is all too short!

I love angelica gigas for its architectural leaves and for the fabulous flowers - intriguing in bud and wonderfully scented in full bloom. The effect is a bit like castor bean (Ricinus communis) although it doesn't have the mysterious foliage color of the red castor bean varieties. It makes up for this with its flowers, which really look great for a very long period. It is usually teated as a biennial or short-lived perennial; in my garden, it reseeds at just about the perfect pace. I've read here that some people don't like the white form, angelica archangelica; I grow and love that one too because it blooms earlier, and it is quite a bit taller and even more architectural.

I also love crambe cordifolia when it's in bloom - HUGH sprays of dainty white sweetly scented flowers with terrific branching patterns that make the stems as ornamental as the flowers. The serious down side of this plant is its foliage; it's a member of the cabbage family, and is a magnet for every plant-eating insect in the known world. Depending on the surrounding plants to hide the basal foliage (at about 2' tall and about 4' around) might be a problem. IN the right location, though, this plant is an absolute knock-out.