so...you were a little concerned about getting answers in conflict...so you come to the nexus of consensus...yeah, that's gonna end well. size under conditions...this includes prevailing winds in winter, which also gets to the use of anti desicants. If you are in a situation that would lend itself to a wind tunnel, such use might be beneficial. That should get the agitators going. In general, rate of growth and ultimate size are going to vary depending upon time frame, soil and weather conditions, fertility, care...so any answer is subject to more legal disclaimers than a heart transplant. The Princess is likely to get taller than the Prince, and in such a short space, might look funny. Speed? I doubt they'd ever grow a foot a year, maybe average half that over time, maybe a bit more. Ultimate size no trimming? Perhaps 10-12, perhaps closer to 15. Then again, maybe 8-10. It all depends... Male female ratio...think of it a harem...one male goes a long way...like one to eight to ten to twenty. Spacing...the faster you want them to fill in, the closer you put them. These guys are going to be slightly taller than wide, but you were generally right. They'll grow in all directions, kinda like Uncle Phil at Thanksgiving dinner. I'd be hard pressed to suggest putting them closer than 6', probably closer to 8. But that's me. Feel free to ...need a good word here...one that implies conflict and lack of agreement...should we say dissent? now for the real kicker, and my view is going to be different than some here. 6' plants to start? in blue holly? You can find them? If you have the budget, go for it. Most folks that frequent these forums have a set of priorities that is different, but that's them. If you want size (I assume for privacy) and can afford it, go for it. Everyone has their own priorities and finds the reason to support their view. But that's what makes the nursery business an exciting dynamic place. Some people want large, some people want small and infinite variety. Both can be satisfied. Just think how boring things would be if this were not the case. But really...you can find 6' blue holly? I guess I'd want to know more. 6' is typically a size for arbs, spruce, or American holly. a more typical size for blues is 5g 18" or 7g 24".

I have grown them all, except maritimum, which belongs to sand dunes. After many years I've found out the only one worth growing is a hybrid with a name Forncett Ultra(from UK). It is reliably perennial, practically indestructable, unless the roots are eaten by something. Eryngium alpinum is very easy to propagate from seeds if you allow it, but big clumps are more succeptible to winter rot than young plants. So they are never really old to make a very big impact, unless you're lucky. Erygnium planum is a terrible flopper, don't waste your time on it(though there is a dwarf cultivar, don't remember the name), it is rather short-lived. Warning though: after many years Forncett Ultra can send some short runners. As far as the ornamental value of the flowers is concerned, none can beat really blue individuals of E.alpinum.

You didn't like our advice on the other thread to wait to plant? ;>) I do understand that you want a beautiful view NOW if not yesterday. As a newbie, it's really really easy to spend money that ends up being wasted . . . wrong plant for the spot, or your tastes in plantings haven't really developed so that 3 years from now you wonder "What was I thinking?!" or you order from a nursery that sends out almost dead twigs though their photos looked lovely. I've done all these and more. I am sending you an email with a website that you can use to check out the reliability of a mailorder or internet nursery. (I can't post it here as GW views the other website as competition.) I know it's difficult, but until you know how much sun you have there during the growing season you really can't decide on what plants to put there. You also need to know what kind of trees you have since some trees aren't likely to let other plants grow under them due to root competition (maples in particular.) An unhappy plant (spindly or diseased quite often) is worse than no plant in my opinion. Both Nellie Stevens and Green Giant like full sun to part shade and it looks to me like there's a good chance that you won't have that, but you won't know until you've actually observed it. I've known several folks who put up a temporary light weight bamboo fence until plants have grown up enough, and something like that between the big tree and the corner could get you through the first season, along with some large potted plants. How tolerant of salt are Nellie and GG? Being alongside the road whatever you plant will need some salt tolerance unless you are in an area where salt isn't used, especially since at an intersection more salt may be used. Around here, the salt spray thrown up by tires does damage to evergreens' foliage. Your yard is higher than the road so you may not need to worry about root damage from salt. You commented at one point in the previous thread: "Maybe our main goal is more about creating something beautiful and also adding a little privacy than just about closing ourselves in." I agree with Steve that Molie is giving you good advice in recommending a berm set back a bit with a variety of plants that are evergreen but shade tolerant. Check out hedges of all of one kind of plant vs a mixed planting by driving around areas with plantings you like. Look at different plants used to block unsightly views and how they are used. Do you need a whole wall of green and do you like that look? (One of the problems with this is that if one dies or grows slower, it can look unbalanced, like a mouth with broken or missing teeth.) Will a mixed shrub border work better? Will tall grasses or a clumping bamboo work better? (though neither of those will work if you have too much shade.) Would just 3 or 5 shrubs and a couple small beautiful trees be enough to pull your attention away from the road and let your eyes rest in the yard? Are you willing to prune to maintain height or width? Would a relatively low fence (to block headlights and some sound) be enough if it had plantings set back from it on one or both sides? Have you figured out if you want to use your front yard or just look at it? The Missouri Botanical Garden's Plantfinder has the option of putting in plant requirements, and I'd look at plants that are happy with part shade at least. Get a soil test done so you know what your soil has now and may need added. It will also tell you what will grow there, since some plants will only grow in certain conditions (like acidic and high organic content or lots clay and moisture.) It's good you are asking questions, since it will save you problems in the long run. Here's link to a thread on a mixed border I created for full sun. You would want different plants, but it might help you start thinking about whether you like a mixed planting vs a planting of all of one type of plant. I planned mine to distract from a utility area, partly by adding interest and partly by blocking the unsightly view. There are photos at both the beginning and at the end. http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/neweng/msg1208322318994.html Here is a link that might be useful: Missouri Botanical Garden Plantfinder

We live in the Mohawk Valley of Upstate NY. Our soil is clay. We have had two back-to-back, extremely cold winters in a row. We had a lot of temps in the negatives (like -15 and lower) and single digits this year. The average temperature this past winter in the month of February was 9 degrees (the temp never rose above freezing the whole month), and we had over 20 days below zero over the winter! Not to mention all the snow we received (which still hasn't melted). March felt like "normal" January weather with highs in the 20s and 30s, but today (April 2) it is supposed to finally get up past 50 to maybe even 60! I am on the fence about creating a hedge, but my wife doesn't want to put up a fence. We have a couple yews and hollies on our property that recently suffered winter burn. From what I have read online, they will likely recover. We are trying to figure out what would be the best cold hardy shrubs that we could use to create a hedge. We would appreciate any suggestions. Thank you.