Compost that wonderful material. The current issue of Organic Gardening magazine has an article that will tell you that animal manures should not be used in a garden for 12 months. Since simply allowing manures to sit around will produce that distinctive manure odor, actually nutrients escaping to the atmosphere where they do your garden no good, and since composting will aid in capturing those nutrients, it is much better to compost any animal manure that to spread it on your garden.

Definitely put it in your bin. You're going to love it.

I've always been thrilled using fresh-ish manure. What are the concerns, kimmsr? Is it an e-coli thing?

The concern with using fresh animal manure in the garden is the disease pathogens that all manures contain. There are those that will state, "My grandparents put fresh amnure on their gardens and never got sick from that." which is not really a valid statemant because their grandparents did get sick but seldom, if ever, look into the why they were sick, vomiting with diarrhea, which is caused by the disease pathogens in manures. Even today people most often do not go to the doctor or hospital simply because the have this vomiting and diarrhea but they tough it out at home which is why illness cause by the diaease pathogens from manures is not as well known or documented as others.

Or they can be like me, and have used manures in their garden for 30 years with no obvious ill effect. If I ever got sick, vomiting, with diarrhea, I'd remember it. I got sick like that once almost exactly six years ago, five years and 349 days to be more precise, on my 50tieth birthday (I didn't mind because I really did not want to go out to dinner that night anyway.) That was in February. I haven't thrown up since that day. Well, except when I have to clean up animal vomit, but that's primarily a learned reaction, me hoping to elicit a sympathetic response from someone who will take over the clean up.

But kimmsr, I don't doubt at all the concerns about manure, because there's a lot of talk about it, but my family has never gotten sick from my manure use (or if they did, it wasn't anything that was especially noteworthy). Maybe the health risks are beyond e-coli. I think I'll do more reading about this, because a garden really seems to love a nice load of manure, composted or not.

But I'm really not challenging you regarding manure. I've read it many times. I don't want to be the idiot who says, "Oh there's nothing wrong with smoking cigarettes. Look at me! I'm 79. I'm fine."

Not only will composting kill pathogens, but it will kill weed seeds and sequester all that readily available nitrogen into humus. I can't think of many plants that would require so much nitrogen that I'd want to apply fresh chicken manure to it. In fact, I can't think of a single benefit to applying fresh manure for any reason to any plants. Unless you're strictly looking for immediate gratification, I wouldn't do it.

Have you ever applied fresh manure, m taggart?
You might want to try it.
For an experiment.

I've been using fresh manure for 32 years. With very exciting results. If you haven't tried it, please don't dismiss it, without admitting so.

As far as the pathogen thing goes, I don't know. As far as results go, that I know.

I had a single green pepper produce 28 full sized peppers last year. I attribute that to the high nitrogen contribution of the 8 lbs. of fish guts that I buried under said pepper.

I raised some chickens for meat a couple of years ago and couldn't think of a less pleasurable experience than having their fresh litter in my raised beds. The thought of choking on ammonia rich chicken litter while weeding, planting, whatever, is not my idea of a pleasurable experience. Wiping sweat off my brow with raw chicken manure on the back of my hand is something I'd like to avoid.

On the other hand, I could compost. It'll kill some weed seeds, kill pathogens, increase beneficial bacteria, minimize mobile nitrogen, won't tempt my dog, and won't stink. I like to get my hands dirty, but I don't like handling crap. I'll compost.

Okay, I'll grant you, it sounds like you know your way around a chicken, although my chicken manure does not smell like ammonia, because I use woodshavings and straw in my hen houses and they are not nitrogen laden, consequently. My henhouse smells like straw and my chicken manure looks like sawdust.
Your experience and mine are different.

I put fresh manure from my chickens and rabbits into my garden every fall after cleaning it up for the season. The last two times I vomited was over 8 and then 9 years ago. Morel mushrooms. Gosh, I miss them.

As for ammonia....if you provide your chickens with well ventilated living quarters, their urine dries quickly and ammonia build-up is not a problem. After resting in the garden through the winter, the chicken manure just blends in with the soil. There are still whole rabbit "pellets" but they are not in the least offensive.
Kay

I have composted poultry litter, biosolids, dog poop and even tortoise poop and bedding from my Russian Tortoises. I have yet to be sick in doing this in over 30 years with veggies and all being the benefitiaries of the compost. Temperature and then time will turn the bad stuff into good. After 3 months of good composting, the manure is probably gone completely and after a year you would be hard pressed to find any chance of disease. Do it right and don't worry about it when composting.

Inside of any creatures digestive system is a plethora of microbes that aid in the digestion of the food we consume. In a healthy person these bacteria have reached some degree of balance with each other. If you introduce a new bacteria or maybe even an antibiotic that wipes out the balanced system entirely you have problems. Your body, with the help of these microbes will reaquire the balanced state but not without some discomfort, indigestion, and possibly vomiting and or diarrhea. This balanced system of microbes which live within us actually protect us from pathogens and the invasive species of the bacterium world, aid the breakdown of our foods, and produce some essential vitamins for us. Research has indicated that our immune function relies on these microbes for proper function and the body can actually identify the good from the bad microbes. It is important to remember that the beneficial microbes are aquired through the environment and diversity in these beneficials equals a more resiliant GI mibrobial population, confering greater resistance to pathogens.

I personally cannot help but question how many people who get sick whenever a veggie has a spec of dirt upon it are not sick due to lack of any functioning GI microflora population due in no small part to the doctors who they faithfully visit perscribing antibiotics at every turn. It could also have something to do with a mineral deficiency caused by the lack of dirt in the food they eat(triple washed hydroponic veggies) and the air they breath (hepa filter purified of course).

Contrary to a semi popular belief, life isn't what kills us. Life is all we have, be it bacterial, invertebrate, or human companions.

Great post Kralen. We are learning that in our efforts to be squeaky clean, we are compromising our immune systems. Even now, with all we know, there are still people who insist that their doctors prescribe an antibiotic every time they catch a cold. The really bad part is that the doctors do it. Same with flu shots. They are only recommended for the very young, the very old and a few special cases, yet they are pushed on everybody.

Kay.

Here is a link that might be useful: Easy-reading article on microbes & people

Common sense should be the rule, but some people seem to need to go to the extremes to justify not using common sense. In the 1930's and after, because of better personal hygiene, the incident rate of polio began to rise because we had lost our natural immunities to this, although the epidemic was never as great as we are led to believe. People do become sick from eating food that has been contaminated by the disease pathogens found in manures, so should you expose your family to this known potential or should you practice common sense and do what you need to so they are not exposed to a potential illness? Common sense tells me that I should do what I can to protect my family from exposure to any potential disease, so manures are composted before being applied to the garden.

Soo--my garden beds next year, will be 4X16, 4' wide. My chicken litter is shredded leaves, mixed with the chicken manure. If I put this--say, 4" deep, on top of the soil,in the fall, and cover with more plain shredded leaves-will this be considered adequate composting by spring? (Beds are framed)

Kralen said:

"Inside of any creatures digestive system is a plethora of microbes that aid in the digestion of the food we consume."

This is a very important statement IMO, for some of these microbes are found within the manure of said animal when the waste is removed from "any creatures" body. These microbes are of different kinds due to the makeup of the food said animal eats. The battle occurs when some animals mix these microbes in their bodies. It is for this reason (among others) I always strongly suggest all manures be composted before being added to a vegetable garden.

Kralen also said:

"It is important to remember that the beneficial microbes are acquired through the environment and diversity in these beneficials equals a more resilient GI microbial population, conferring greater resistance to pathogens."

Anyone who has "cracked" open a compost pile and had that sweet aroma hit them in their face knows that the compost is ready for prime time. The microbe battle has been won by those good microbes and created in the process a organic pile that bleeds with the smell of a "forest floor"; anything that is planted in that material (compost) is going to produce a crop (vegetable) that is going to bestow health to the consumer if all things are done right from that point. The longer this compost is allowed to work (mature, cure, ripen) the better will be the results IMO.

Kralen then said:

"It could also have something to do with a mineral deficiency caused by the lack of dirt in the food they eat (triple washed hydroponic veggies) and the air they breath (hepa filter purified of course)."

With the proper balance of microbes (determined by nature), the proper spectrum of minerals in the soil for those microbes to feed to the plants, and the properly composted organic matter bestowed with an abundant supply of humic and fulvic acids for both soil and plant health the mammal that consumes the harvest of the plants in said soil will be ingesting food that can eliminate the need for a doctor or his/her array of antibiotics, scissors, scalpels, staples, or stitches. There is a reason those who use "humanure" in their gardens allow that manure to compost for such an extended amount of time.

Needless to say I totally agree with what Kralen has posted because the words chosen are profound and insightful. Composting all manures to ensure safety and maximum potential to produce healthy mineral rich food makes good sense (as it should be IMO). Better to do it right the first time; the other alternative is to hope the medicine or the doctor does it right the first time. Not a very good place to be in IMOÂ

Blutranes

In the 1930's and after, because of better personal hygiene, the incident rate of polio began to rise because we had lost our natural immunities to this, although the epidemic was never as great as we are led to believe.

I'm putting on my hip waders, because its getting deep in here.... two false assumptions in one sentence. yikes.

Most of the food produce that we buy in the grocery store has been grown in fields that had raw manure spread on them. Manure is commonly applied to farm fields without being composted first.

Joepyeweed your last point bears repeating, and repeating.

Organic growing is often associated with sh*t, from any animal including human, being applied directly to fields, while conventional growing is not.