I also remember you mammabird. I usually don't use the forum much in the winter but come back on in the spring just to catch up on what's new etc. I have a retrofit bd as well mine is some modifications on the Tetra through the liner drain (which froze) but I used the cap from it for my drain. I am replacing that this year with the Aqua Art Drain as it sits flatter than mine. Not sure if I understand your "hump" but you usually put the bd in the deepest part of the pond. Avid koi-keepers like to do TPR's--but that also means cutting a hole in the liner. With your pond dimensions you might want two bottom drains one for each deep section. That would mean two bulk heads (I did pipe boot connections) through the liner on the side of the pond wall nearest your settling chamber. My drain has a 4" line reduced to 3" just before it enters the sc followed by a 3" knife valve (there much cheaper!). I take my drain out for winter because of my climate. Water inside pipes in my climate not a good idea. My settling chamber is a liner chamber (kinda like a pond beside the pond)350 gals-my pond is 2500 gals. They say sc should hold at least 10% of your pond volume. I really like this system as use sc for water changes. I have 3-4 ft square matala mats in my chamber which is also my mechanical filitration. Good luck with your new pond and move. Patti

Hi scottspond, some how didn't think she would, Florida vs Manchester, no contest really ;-) The area I live in is New Mills, in High Peak in Derbyhsire. If it doesn't ring a bell, it's just past Lyme park, Buxton is about 2 miles away, Stockport 9 miles and Manchester 20 miles (all via road) Handily the railway station is about 5 mins away from my home, so trips to Manchester are pleasent through the countyside and don't require I use the car ;-) And in summer I get to hop on the odd steam trian, every boys dream. My Mancunian mates reckon I've gone "all posh" living here, as I was born and grew up in Fallowfield and went to school in Rusholme. Regards ChrisC.

Lillies, like all plants, use a lot of water. They use it when they "breath" and also in the conversion of sun into food. I'm not 100% sure, it does vary by plant, but I think you may lose more water thru the leaves of the lilies than you would from evaporation if the lilies weren't there. If this pond was to "save" water and you were having to top it off with a hose I'm sure the net result would be wasting water. A stone and cement pond is extremely expensive to do correctly. Many people don't think they have to build these with steel reinforcement (rebar) or have to use as much concrete as properly built structure. Yet for some unexplained reason they think their structure will actually hold water. So they go to all the trouble and expense, the pond doesn't hold water, and then post in pond forums asking whether putting some goop over the cracked concrete will solve their problems. Well, they ask the question, but almost always they've already decided that they're going to do that and are just looking for someone who has the same experience level to tell them "Great idea" so they can proceed knowing it will work. It doesn't. You can read lots of these posts in any pond forum. Just search "crack concrete". Learning from other people's mistake is a great money and time saver. On the other hand laying a liner first and then putting whatever concrete stones over the the liner will hold water. Because no rebar is needed (or desired) and the concrete/mortar/stone can be very thin you end up saving money. The protective layer on top of the liner can help protect the liner from animals. While EPDM liner is very good there are cheaper alternatives like used billboards depending on how long you want the structure to last. Personally I doubt the "saved" water would ever get remotely close to be being worth while from a cash perspective and certainly not from a saving the planet perspective. Since any project to be used for irrigation would be a big project and because we're talking about the flow of surface water you should consider whether you have the right or not to do this project. I have absolutely no idea where you're planning this project or your plans but you should check with your local Fish&Game, EPA, city and state to make sure your project isn't severely damaging stuff you don't own, like a wetland that's on your property or downhill from your property. Many people think "their" property means they own everything and can do whatever they like however they like. Seems especially true for people new to these types of projects. Your neighbors and the rest of us, who most likely own at least some water rights on your property have a different perspective. We have created Fish&Game, the EPA and other agencies to protect our rights and stop people from stealing our resources. Wish we didn't didn't need these agencies, but sure seems like we do. It could save you a lot of hassle later to check first. Your neighbors also have rights that can be affected when you change drainage. Some of these agencies can be very helpful too. Fish&Game will probably send someone out to look over the site with you and offer good suggestions, maybe even have money to help you with your project. Be aware that just because Fish&Game says it's OK doesn't mean it's OK with EPA, or your city, or your state. You are the only person responsible to make sure you have the right to do whatever it is you want to do. Water rights and ownership is very complex in the US because it is such a valuable resource. More valuable than gold or oil because water is forever and needed for life. So people (all of us) take protecting their rights pretty serious.

Hi Sandy, IPaWGS is a branch of the International Professional Pond Contractors Association (IPPCA). The idea for IPaWGS started about 4 years ago who's time has come. Besides being currently a national pond society that will be international someday it also an important part of the IPPCA legislative action team(LAT). Why a does the industry need a LAT? The problem is that there are too many government bodies in this country that are trying to control or regulate the pond industry or hobby. As examples of what is taking place in this country some of the major government actives in 2008 were the EPA water sense program that wanted to ban all water features on all new homes that were following the water sense program. There was also the state of Wisconsin that was about to in act a regulation that would have ban Koi or Goldfish from any open air pond. Then there is Utah that in acted a measure to require a permit to have koi. Than there was lots of other things on a local level that have effects on ponds. And these are just a sample of the ones we know about and the ones we don't know about. For those who think that there is nothing to worry about just live in the state of Maine. For years now it has been illegal to have koi in that state. Mike