I have not moved nor downsized yet - but I know it is in my future, just as knee replacement (both) surgery is. All of your ideas on how to garden in your new space are ones that I can relate to. How many years did rose lust crowd my beds - with no rhyme or reason! I cannot bring myself to rip out old beds or sod over any of my gardens although taking care of them all is becoming more difficult each year, but someday to have a small, blank slate on which to start over! Ah, that is a dream I can take hold of. I think your most important point is the research into disease resistance - no molly-coddling roses anymore! And also planning the spacing well - no squeezing in just one more, LOL. And when I start over, I will use all my years of experience and experimenting to make those beds a mixture of the best roses, bulbs, perennials and annuals I've ever grown, designed to give me joy all through the season. (I'm making notes now!)
Congratulations on your new blank slate - have fun turning it into your perfect garden!!

I'm fully intending on starting over someday so I have been thinking of my current gardens as practice gardens, and as I experiment and learn I've been compiling a list of ideas for my future 'dream garden.'

The first thing I want to do is come up with a plan for the layout before I start planting, instead of just putting things willy-nilly where there is enough room and the right conditions. I would like to have an actual landscape instead of a series of gardens, if that makes any sense. The second thing would be to choose only roses that thrive in my area without any coddling, and the third would be to have a good irrigation system so that I can spend my time tending instead of watering. Most of the other stuff on the list is about the fruit and veggies that I want to grow, my dream is to have a garden that is both beautiful and productive.

Dittos to all of the above. I would begin with raised beds and plant the tall bushes in the back.

I'm starting over right now. My last house, the landscaping was really lovely and done before I moved into it. There wasn't much room for roses at all, let alone, what room there was didn't have enough sunlight. I had ok luck with them for the most part, only one had to be shovel pruned but several of them suffered from black spot and powdery mildew each season and I'm sure it was because they weren't getting enough sun.

My new home, also has some landscaping, however, a lot of it I was able to tear out because it was just awful and overgrown, full of weeds and what I term "weed trees" and such. It also needed some updating which I did last year and I had an underground irrigation system installed. I put in some new flowering trees and bushes to give more interest (it was too heavy on evergreens) such as hydrangeas, lilac and dare I say it, Knock-Out roses for quick effect. I thought I'd hate those Knock-Outs, having grown hybrid teas, floribundas, and old roses previously but actually I was rather pleased with their "hands off" approach. They were healthy, vigorous (they got very tall for me) and pest free. Who could ask for more?

Anyway, I had beds created on my front walkway which never got planted last year due to it being too late in the season to do so (it was ridiculously hot here in NJ last summer). I also have a small bed (it's about 12' x 8' I think) in the back area that has some room in it for maybe a few roses along with the existing hydrangea tree (elderly, came with the house, a remarkable bloomer) and some other things I planted there. I have some room here and there to get a few more roses in, against a side fence, near my front porch, etc.

I ordered 9 bare roots this year. I think that will be all I can get in around the property. Several will go in the planting strip at the front of the house - the smaller species, and maybe one of the taller ones near the lamp post. I ordered one climber, which will go near my garage side door near my neighbors fence - I'll be buying something to train that on. I think I'll be able to tuck 3 (maybe 4) into the back bed area. And that should take care of all of them.

I have no intention of buying any others. Certainly not this year until I see how all of these acclimate, and if they get enough sun. My property is much smaller than my last homes, and I want to be able to put in some perennials, so keeping the roses to a manageable level is important.

I have the irrigation going to all of these areas so watering won't be an issue. I'm hoping growing them now will be lower maintenance than in the past. I'm getting older myself, have bad knees also (had the meniscus removed from the both), and between working full time and occasionally not feeling 100%, having a simpler way to care for them is my goal.

I'm also going to go organic this time around, and not stress out about them being "perfect". I picked roses which had good ratings for disease and pests, and if the rest of my garden has any bearing on things to come, so far I've had a very healthy one so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the roses :)

Moved to N.GA and started with a clean slate 3 1/2 years ago. The rose beds are long and narrow. Two bushs deep. I like it this way. No jumbled mess that I can't get to. Also very careful about what goes into the garden. No monsters that take up the room where 3 or 4 other roses can go. Plus I'm keeping the garden to around 80 bush's. No more 150+ bush's garden. Had to sit down and REALLY look over each rose I wanted to grow. Right now I'm VERY happy with the way things are turning out. Still have 15 roses to order but that will happen between this coming fall and next spring. No hurry on anything. This is my hobby that I enjoy. Not a life and death situation that must happen right now.

I started over last year although I have such a minuscule garden, it was not a massive project. Nonetheless, the old paving was ripped out and I built 2 large raised beds which bisect the garden, leaving 2 areas - one for my greenhouse (which is ridiculously large for the size of garden - and an area for sitting. The raised beds were 3x as big as the previously planting areas. The old pergola was dismantled and built against the north-facing wall which now has a shady bed underneath. The raised beds are built of rendered concrete blocks with a 9inch wide timber coping. Best of all, the flooring is cheap blocks but because the areas are small (and there are over 50 pots) it all holds together. It has been a pleasure to actually make a plan and implement it in one season instead of the usual squashing more and more stuff in, nowhere to sit and tight little pathways to squeeze through. My tiny space has become a little haven of loveliness instead of the planty rampant jungle it used to be. Hopefully, I will master putting photos on the web so I can boast about my masterful design.

If (when) I start over, I will dig amend much bigger holes before planting. I will remember what a mature full size rose is and allow for it. This is really important because my soil is mucky clay.

Lucile, your post reminded me of this article, written 87 years ago by Mabel Osgood Wright, a marvelous and prolific author, for the 1925 American Rose Society Annual, titled, "A Tired Woman's Roses". To place her in history, her father performed the marriage of John Wilkes Booth's cousin in their home when she was a young girl, with Wilkes Booth in attendance, just weeks prior to Lincoln's assassination. He was also one of the Reverands who presided over Lincoln's funeral. Mabel wrote years later in her autobiography, "My New York", in 1934, shortly before her death, of the awful young man (Teddy Four Eyes) in her childhood dance classes who would kick the little girls in the ankles, inducing temporary lameness so he wouldn't have to dance with him. It was a memory she shared with him years later when visiting the White House at President Theodore Roosevelt's invitation.

She was a contemporary of J. Horace McFarland, who built the ARS into what it became and led it for many years. Many of his printing processes and techniques were in common use until recent years.

This article, "A Tired Woman's Roses", is very much what you're speaking here. I wanted to dig it out, scan and share it as I thought you and others would enjoy it. Please do! Kim

Clicking on the images will take you to Flicker, where you may further click on the images and enlarge them to more easily read them.

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Thank you Kim!

You're welcome! I can never read Mrs. Wright without tearful eyes. A lovely friend whom I met through volunteering at The Huntington Library nearly thirty years ago, and who was easily nearly forty years my senior at that time, gave me my introduction to Mrs. Wright. "The Garden of the Commuter's Wife", by "Barbara", was a delight in every way. Historically, geographically, botanically and horticulturally accurate, it shared the story of a young woman, her country doctor father and her eventual husband, "The Commuter" and their lives outside New York City at the end of the Nineteenth Century. Each addition to the series, The Garden You and I, The People of the Whirlpool, The Sign of the Fox, develops already wonderful characters further and describes how rural living changed dramatically as NYC "encroached" and absorbed the surrounding areas.

Her books are wonderfully written and contain many, genuinely interesting and sympathetic characters. She wrote several series designed to teach children about Nature. Her Birdcraft was long considered the consummate work on American Song Birds. Flora, Fauna and their Haunts was written with J. Horace McFarland and is as excellent as her others. Her autobiography, My New York, tied them all together and shared what a fascinating character she was and what a rich life she led.

My introduction to her through the "Barbara" series taught me the background to the love affair and life she shared with "The Commuter". Reading how in 1925, the home and garden she shared with him were then "passed into others' hands" brings tears to my eyes now, just as it did all the years ago when I first read it.

Several of her articles appeared in the ARS annuals. "Silver Anniversary Roses" in the 1921 edition, I remember was quite enjoyable, though I lost that edition in a fire in 1996.

Any of her books make great reads, but the "Barbara" series are sure to touch you. She was quite an author. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Mabel Osgood Wright

Kim, thank you for share Mrs. Wrights work with us via Flicker. I thoroughly enjoyed it. And now I learn that there is more of her writings for which to search.

There is lots of good advice here. For myself, I don't know that I'd want to start over. I kind of like the way my garden has evolved over time. But then I have never cared for very precise and too neat gardens much. I like gardens that look big, blousy and over flowing. The more natural look with big patches of this and that mixed throughout. I do wish I had perfect soil but even that is often a transient thing. It may be terrific this season but in a few years it changes. Things get depleted. I've learned to work with what I've got and make the most of it.

#1 thing without hesitation: Plan out the layout better!!! Had I known the rose garden would end up this big, I would have only planted climbers and large roses bushes along the fence, with the shorter ones in front. I also would have divided the OGRs and the moderns into seperate areas. oh well, what's done is done. I'd rather have a messy hodge-podge than none at all :)

Tammy

Several things...

1. Find LEVEL property with NO pine trees (or other large trees)
2. Plant fewer roses
3. Set up the drip/sprinkler lines before planting
4. DO NOT plant perennials (or especially irises) in the same beds!!!
5. Mulch mulch mulch
6. Fertilize more often
7. Kill the Bermudagrass before it gets out of hand...
8. Do not get a new dog (sprinkler-chewing, rose-chomping pain-in-the-butt)

Sally, if the Lord tarries and I don't kick the bucket, I'll be your age in 26 years. I plan to be doing the same as you and maybe will have taken up painting water colors or writing poetry by then also. I hope I never get too old to learn or too grumpy to have a good time. And never, never take myself or my problems very seriously.

This thread made me smile and smile. Thanks, I enjoyed it.

If I could start my garden again:

1. I will not include any once blooming roses because they have a very short flowering period. It's already March and I'm longing for more blooms in the garden. The only roses that are blooming in my garden are Claire Austin and Evelyn. The rest are taking a rest. I might include a once-bloomer if only it looks really nice and is healthy.

2. I will plant two or maybe three roses and that would be it. Roses require a lot of watering to keep them healthy and keep those mites at bay. Since I'm renting and so many jobs are going offshore, it would be wise for me to save up for emergency. Besides, the majority of our roses contain some type of viruses. I noticed when my roses get stressed and dry, their performance and their bloom quality isn't too good.

I will be starting over (again) soon, hopefully. The first time, I had to cut 80 roses down to 10, and squeeze them in where there was space in the rental's yard. Now I am waiting for the right property at the right price to come along - large yard, southern exposure, decent soil and drainage, with native conifers but at a distance so there's room for a proper rose garden, strawberry bed and veggie garden and some smaller fruit trees and berry vines and bushes.

Lessons from previous garden: Build raised beds for the roses if at all possible. And as others have said, keep the rose beds narrower. Plan for weeding. Get weeds under control at the beginning - don't plant the roses now and figure I'll get the weeds under control later - doesn't work that way!

Don't plant spring bulbs directly under the roses. If I mulch the roses for the winter, the poor things will be trying to come up through all that winter protection when it's their time to bloom.

Wait for it to get really cold before mulching the roses for winter. Probably half the time I'll be able to skip that step entirely with no freeze damage.

Lessons from current garden: Plant more once-bloomers. They bloom about as much as the HTs in our climate, with a lot less work. I left most of them behind in the old garden due to space constraints but now I'm regretting that.

I'll need a potting shed and/or greenhouse of some kind too. A covered outdoor space where I can putz around even in our nonstop 9 month rainy season. Doesn't need to be heated, just covered. And a cold frame for early spring starts.

And this one is critical: BUILD A DOG RUN. Do NOT let the current dog have free run of the yard while I'm at work. She is a digger. And she likes to chew up nursery cans, and she's strong enough to carry a planted nursery can across the yard to chew it up.

dh and i are also planning a move in the next year

i'm insisting on the back yard facing south or east
(this one's facing west)
i'm going for great dirt first then i want
some walkways and more narrow beds and
lastly i want an irrigation system of some kind (drip hoses if nothing else)
lots and lots of great mulch
then i want a hip replacemnt and some tylenol

i can hardly wait

While of course I would greatly limit the number of roses I grow, more importantly, I would learn to slow down and retrain my mind and my eyes to see more in less--a smaller number of roses but a vaster amount of observation and appreciation.