Koi hiding in liner folds

15 years ago

I finished my 1200 gallon pond about 1 month ago. I put in plants (hyacinth, hornwort, and lilies) about 2 weeks ago. Last Friday I bought 4 koi (5"-6" in size) from a local Nursery. The koi were fairly skittish. On Saturday morning I saw all 4 swimming at the bottom of the pond (4' deep), and Sunday morning I only saw 2 swimming at the bottom and then they promptly hid. My wife only saw one Sunday afternoon and was worried they might have died. We've got about 45% cover of hyacinth so I figured they were just hiding underneath the plants which are fairly large. After moving everything around and checking they weren't stuck in the roots I was concerned. None were to be found. We've got river rocks lining the edge of the pond (they are submerged about 6" at most). I moved all the rocks I felt they could potentially get behind but they weren't there. The only thing left was the folds of the liner. I moved all the way around the pond without any luck until I got to the skimmer where a majority of the folds are located (folds are arranged so debris doesn't lodge into them from the waterfall to the skimmer). There are four large folds near the skimmer (about 6" "deep"). I reached my hand under the first one and out comes a koi, same with the second, third and fourth. My question is, Should I be concerned they are going under the flaps to hide? The flaps aren't weighted down so there is a 3"-4" height under each flap. Once I left the pond they immediately returned to hide in the flaps. I know once they grow larger they won't be able to fit in the space.

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Comments (8)

groundbeef1
15 years ago
Yes. You should be afraid.

Especially as the fish grow. They may be comfortable hiding in those areas now, but as they get bigger, I would be afraid of one getting stuck.

At the beginning of this summer, I was looking for a wayward frog that I had seen go into a fold. I found the frog, as well as a fish skeleton for a gf I hadn't seen in a while.

I ended up placing the fold flush against the wall of the pond. I then put a large river rock on the excess to keep it down. Haven't lost a fish or frog since.
rayne
15 years ago
Mine do that and I never had a problem. I have sizes from fry to about 30", and they all poke around in the folds. They're just trying to hide and get used to the new pond. Give them a few days to relax.
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So I think I got it backwards then. Everything slopes down to the pond (partly because of lack of space, sloping of the land, etc). Even the coping rocks slope towards the pond, so that the front edge of the rock facing the pond is slightly in the water (to give that 'in the water' look), but the back of the rock is raised so that its out of the water and to help keep the water running into the pond, instead of out of the pond. Only by the patio do I have the water level higher (due to a 1" miscalculation when setting the skimmer). If I slope it the way you said, won't the liner show by the water edge. My rocks aren't that big to make them overhang. I'm afraid that someone (or animal) could tip them into the pond, so instead I've set them back but have that bit of liner looking like its underwater. This is probably a very simple thing, but for some reason, I'm not getting it... Do you have a photo of your liner edge placement? All my books and magazines doen't really show it. Haven't found any really good photos on the internet either. I think I've been out there digging in the rain too long!
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dang it....I had a really well though out response all done, and my internet explorer crashed. So I'll try again...lol!! First...a few comments regarding how koi ponds compare to aquariums. Normally, aquariums are lightly stocked with small fish. It's really easy to keep the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate cycle operating perfectly in a correctly stocked environment. Same as a rock bottom pond...lightly stocked and properly maintanied it can work. In a pond's bio filter, ammonia is converted to nitrite and then to nitrate. Nitrate is most easily removed froma koi pond by way of regular water changes. Ever try to keep an aquarium with goldfish? Many goldie keepers I know keep no gravel in the tank at all, because of maintenance. That gravel gets really filthy very fast. I had a lovely goldie tank once....and gave it up. the maintenance was a nightmare! I'd rather deal with a huge koi pond any day of the week. Some people are reporting sucess with rock bottom ponds and no maintenance. Again...it is directly related to stocking levels. I hope these ponds continue to perform well for years to come, but for the vast majority of people, they will not. Most watergardeners install their ponds (and rocks) and then run out and buy a bunch of adorable little 5" long koi. The koi grow.....fast. They produce mountains of fish waste, which all gets trapped in the rocks. But because the pond looks clean, the owner is lulled into a false sense of security and does not think that there is a thing wrong, until the fish start dying or the fins start rotting off. Then they do one of two thing....they learn where they went wrong and correct their mistakes, or they just buy new fish (which is unfortunatly what most people do). Matt...you are on the right track with your new pond. You certainly can install your bottom drain now and add the rest of the system later. But instead of using a pipe cap, install a 4" ball valve on the end of the line. The water can't be permitted to sit stagnant in the unused drain line for too long or it will start developing the dreaded hydrogen sulphide gas. Opening that valve every couple of weeks and allowing the water to flow out for a couple of minutes will prevent the problems. I am attaching a link to the Atlanta Koi Club's web site. They have an excellent pdf that explains a lot about how a koi pond works, water quality, stocking levels, how much biofiltration is needed and many other wonderful facts. Cindy
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Wow, great ideas: fool4flowers: your pond is awesome! and I think I'll add some of the tall plants, they look great in your pond. jalal: no plant shelves on that side (ya, what was I thinkin) but good idea about putting stands or milk crates along that side. In Iowa, we've got a TERRIBLE problem with jenny's brother "Creeping Charlie" so I don't even want to start that critter by the pond. squirelette: Oh man, didn't even think about making a strip of stone/rock to hang over the edge. I've got the black foam left over from sealing the waterfall and "glueing" rocks in place. I think DH has some nylon screening in the shop that he used in the hog barn -- if it's good enough for pigs, it's good enough for me! I've got two pink flamingos hanging out in the berm above the pond, maybe I'll stick them in a pot (so they don't poke holes in the liner) and set them on rocks or a milk crate in the pond to hide some of the liner IN ADDITION TO the stone skirt, yup-that's what I'll call it if anybody asks. Thanks for all the great ideas - I'm so happy it's Friday so I've got the weekend to work on this. Happy times ponding!!!!
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Hi Everyone. Thanks so much for all your supporting words. Im sorry I havent been able to get back to you till now. But we lost one of our bunnies on Friday, so pond has been a bit at a stand still. He was the cutest little thing and only 4 yrs old, so it was quite a shock. We've had bunnies for 10 yrs, so I know they have to go eventually. But he was one of our own babies and the youngest. He got sick and died in only a few hours though and without pains, so we have to be happy about that. He had a really happy life though, living with his mum all the time. (He was neutered ;-)) Now we only have mum and dad and a daughter left. And weve decided to not have any more, as theyre such delicate animals and its just too sad when they die. Ive been able to get back out and work a bit at the pond again today and finished filling it. I just LOVE it... Its just the way I wanted it, and this time I think I got the size right. The instant I filled the preform earlier, I just knew it was way too small :-D You were all so right... I really dont have too many folds now its all full, and only a few of them are really big. But the fish easily swim in and out of them, and they seem easy to clean too. Mondotomhead; Ive been reading most of the old posts on here and I remember reading about someone that had a lot of the dig-out crash in with rain, maybe that was you... that was why I was so desperate to get the liner in. I feel sad you had to go through all that extra work. Janette, the exhaustion is such a good point. Building ponds are just such hard work, so it makes it extra hard when we have to do it over and over again. I know what you mean about the edges too... argh! I had lawn up to the edges of some of my preform too and I loved it. Also being able to sit on the lawn and look down into the water while petting my dogs :-) There is a picture in one of my old threads where you can also see mine. It worked so well even if it only got one month to establish. Im having lawn edges again on the entire right side of this pond too. But Im still debating if I have to put something under the edge, timber or stone, to reinforce it, seing it doesnt have the solid edge of the preform. Did you do that? Im really glad I didnt spend the extra money on the tape, Lisa, if it only holds up for a short time anyway. Thanks again to everyone for your helpfull comments. Take care, Hanne Here is a link that might be useful: My first pond
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lsst
15 years ago
Is there a way to lower the pond some to access the folds?
If so, and if your liner is EPDM, you could use tape designed for use with epdm and try to tape over the folds.
It may encourage them to find safer hiding places.

But as rayne mentioned, it has been only a month and it may be a temporary thing til they get used to the pond.

I had one fish that hid for 6 weeks til she began to school with the others.
johnkr
15 years ago
I think the fish might need some time to adjust to their new environment. Give them some time.

I can't recall a fish hide in the folds of my liner, but frogs hibernate in the folds every winter. I never found a dead frog or fish in the folds.
buyorsell888
15 years ago
You might add a safe place for them to hide. In totally open water they often feel insecure. I have a floating styrofoam planter that they often hide under and you can make caves for them on the bottom or under pots lifted up on crates.
jusride
Original Author
15 years ago
I thought I would give an update. The koi still hide in the folds during the day but at night they come out into the main pond. If spooked they will head back to the folds. All appear to be happy and healthy.
morge2347
11 years ago
We just introduced koi to our new pond/waterfall. It has been set up and the water tested ok. We have fish caves built into the pond and shortly after their arrival the fish all went in and are hiding. How long will this behavior usually last and should I be concerned?
Will they come out to eat or will they eat from the floor of the pond?

New at this. trying to understand their behavior.
Lori_Carlos
11 years ago
This is only our 2nd season with our pond and we had a rough start (long story that I won't get into) but when we bought our Koi and goldfish we had the same issue. I was terrified that they'd get stuck. Some of our Koi are now close to 12 inches in length and they don't hide in the folds anymore, LOL. We have lots of water lettuce floating as well as hornwort which generally sinks to the bottom. They now hide there. Mind you they know us now and don't usually hide when they see us.

Koi hiding in liner folds

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Koi hiding in liner folds

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