FWIW, I consider this to be the best rose from my fifteen years of work.
{{gwi:232758}}

This post was edited by trospero on Sat, Feb 8, 14 at 20:06

Mr. Barden,

That is great to hear. In your experience, how do you feel it would handle my warmer climate considering it has Gallica genes? I can get away with growing Hybrid Chinas well. Our temperatures regularly drop to 20 degrees at night during the winter and don't rose above the 30s.

Thanks!

Josh

A beautiful rose, Paul!

Josh, I'm am planning to dive into some of Paul's rose as soon as I rearrange my garden space. I'd be curious to hear how they fare in your area since I'd like to recommend a couple to my sister in Dallas. I've heard great things about Paul's roses from gardeners in my area regarding disease resistance, growth habit and bloom. Marianne, although once-blooming, seems like a good choice for a healthy, floriferous Abraham Darby replacement.

Carol

This post was edited by PortlandMysteryRose on Sat, Feb 8, 14 at 20:36

Carol,

Mr. Barden also has a rose called Oshun that actually has Abraham Darby in its lineage. It's a great sunset color! Rogue Valley Roses carries it.

I personally can't wait to get my hands on Golden Buddha. Some friends of mine are having triplets and Buddhist. They're rose fans, and I would love to gift three GB to them!

Josh

Josh

Golden Buddhas: what perfect gifts for your parents-to-be buddies! I don't have triplets, so maybe just one will do for my garden. :-)

I've been researching Oshun, too. Since Paul's roses all do quite well in this area, I'm sure Oshun would, too. I've suffered through a roller coaster relationship with Abraham and his illnesses but love his color, fragrance and habit. Oddly, Abe has been behaving since I wacked him and moved him to a spot with better sun exposure and air circulation. Almost NO disease! We'll see what happens this year.

Hope you thaw soon!

Carol

"In your experience, how do you feel it would handle my warmer climate considering it has Gallica genes? I can get away with growing Hybrid Chinas well. Our temperatures regularly drop to 20 degrees at night during the winter and don't rose above the 30s. "

I hope someone from your own climate can speak to that; I can't really say. But given its pedigree, I would guess that it will perform well for you. It won't need the same kind of long-lasting, deep chill that many Gallicas require, so....

P

Paul

If you consider Marianne your "best rose," I will take that to heart. You have so many wonderful new hybrids that your words carry great weight. When I complete my revised garden preparations and begin assembling as many of your roses as I can accomodate, I'll also begin posting progress reports. Eventually, I may send a couple of your roses as gifts to my sister in Dallas, TX, since she has so graciously been performing large portions of the care required for our several elderly family members. I can get updates from her on your roses in her garden to add to data accumulated from Josh's and others' reports. If you could be persuaded to name the top 5 of your own roses, Paul, which 5 would you list? If I'm setting up an impossible task, please disregard my question. Just thought I'd get a recommendation straight from the breeder since he's on the forum. Thank you!

Carol

P.S. I'm on Rogue Valley's waiting list for La Ville de Brux. To your knowledge, this company does have the real deal, doesn't it? No more imposters!

My Jerijen has been an absolute winner in every way, the bouquet and the bush shape is magnificent. I am now intrigued with Marianne, is RVR the only place that carries her?

I have had Marianne for quite a few years and I love this rose!
It gets about 7-8 feet tall here in Central Ohio, it has had very little disease and the rose is lovely in spring. The bush is healthy and so it doesn't bother me that it does not bloom all year. In this black spot infested area where we have been having 100 degree summers and warm winters until THIS year, this rose has held up wonderfully.

here is a later and closer view of the blooms. It will have yellowish blooms on some and peachish on others, and sometimes both colors on one bloom.
roseberri

"If you could be persuaded to name the top 5 of your own roses, Paul, which 5 would you list?"

I can do that quite easily, with, of course, the caveat that my choices are climate-dependent and they are not going to be right for any/all climates.

1) 'Marianne'
2) 'Won Fang Yon'
3) 'Mel's Heritage'
4) 'Jeri Jennings'
5) 'Joyce Barden'

I was sorely tempted to place 'Umbra and/or 'Allegra' on the list instead of some of the others, but the five I chose are in that list because they are superior in some way or another. That is not to say that they aren't all without shortcomings or flaws -- I will be the first to admit that 'Jeri Jennings' cannot be successfully grown in a region where Blackspot pressure is high, at least without fungicide application. But if you do choose that route, it can be astonishingly good, with mountains of fragrant bloom in 3-4 cycles per year.

'Marianne' is - of course - a spring bloomer only, and in places where the Spring warms up fast, it might provide a fairly short bloom period ( 3 weeks or less). I've come to see this as a plant best grown by training long canes on a support of some kind. Looking for a rose to train horizontally on a low split rail fence, perhaps? This would be a great rose for that.

I'm starting to think 'Mel's Heritage' is close to flawless, actually; it repeats in strong flushes, few (if any) disease problems, strong grower, tolerant of poor soils, and surprisingly hardy, given its pedigree. This winter we had a cold snap with temps as low as minus five Fahrenheit! and my huge 'Cecile Brunner' is 95% dead brown canes now, but 'Mel's Heritage', grown only inches away, is still green and viable. I'm very very surprised, considering that this is a 'Crepuscule' hybrid.

'Won Fang Yon' is one of the most shapely shrubs of Tea pedigree I have ever grown; it can be grown for years without any "secateurial intervention" and remain rounded, full and healthy. It isn't likely disease free in all climates, but it does really well here in the PNW, and I have heard from several Florida growers who said that it is an exceptionally good plant for their climate.

It seems fitting somehow, that the first rose I chose to name and introduce should also be one of the best - 'Joyce Barden'. It has been remarkably healthy for me (and many other) growers, and is mannerly, reliable, and quite beautiful. I get the impression that it does better in climates where Spring weather is warmer and less wet than here -- it dislikes persistent rainy spells while it is opening its first blooms. They don't "ball", but they tend to collapse before opening fully if they stay wet and cold for long.

No rose is perfect -- not a single one. The genus is plagued by many faults, and sometimes the most beautiful flower can be found atop the worst possible plant; one that requires "life support" measures just to keep it going. Roses like 'Lavender Pinocchio' immediately come to mind when I say that -- and so does 'Anvil Sparks' -- and 'Soleil d'Or'. The list is long, now that I think of it.

In a way, I'm glad to see that we are entering another "Dark Age" of rose growing (yes, there have been others before). Fashion, cultivation challenges, economic pressures -- you name it -- have conspired to bring about a collapse of the industry, and many cultivars will be lost, just like before. Right now, many lament the disappearance of all kinds of lovely "museum pieces" (you KNOW what I am talking about), but what remains in 50 years will be roses worth growing. We've viewed the cultivation (and the marketing culture) of roses through the 1950s lens of "Better Living Through Chemistry" which the American breeders in particular saw as their ticket to a previously-unimaginable freedom; the ability to market any rose that performed well enough (*ahem!*) as long as you applied fungicide as a regular part of your growing routine. Now, we are seeing exactly where that industry mantra has taken us.

I'm sorry to say it, but the Queen of Flowers is dead, and decades will pass before some Prince comes to breathe new life into her. Mark my words.*

"I'm on Rogue Valley's waiting list for La Ville de Brux. To your knowledge, this company does have the real deal, doesn't it? No more imposters!"

To the best of my knowledge, yes, they do have the correct variety. In fact, Janet's supply may well have been my plant IIRC.

*What few people realize - at least not fully - is that rose growing has been a fashion that has waxed and waned many times over the past 400 years. In fact, if you examine the data available, you will see that rose "mania" runs on an (approximately) eighty year cycle. Its happened before, and right now, we are on the waning slope. I file this condition under "Accept what you cannot change", since there isn't really anything we can do to change these facts, except hold on to plants you think are valuable, and make an effort to share them with people who can and will preserve them.

PS: A big thank you to roseberri for the beautiful photos. They illustrate nicely what a fine rose this can be in the hands of a caring gardener :-)

Thanks Josh for bringing Marianne to my attention again, she is so exceptionally lovely. Guess I may have to make a third order;
Along with Charles de Mills , I think I could be somewhat content to get my top 10 for this summer.
Msjam 2-
if Rogues supply runs dry, Northland Rosarium in Spokane carries Marianne and some other really great roses, including La Ville de Bruxelles. Northland is a Daves Garden TOP 5 rose nursery, and I hear their shipping is some of the very best in the business. I'll see for myself when my first shipment comes;
ALCHYMIST
MADAME HARDY
ROUGE ROYALE
CRESTED MOSS
EVELYN
I hope there are enough for all of us that want Marianne.
It pays to read or daily Rose garden news.

Although I no longer expect people to do it, it still saddens me that when a nursery includes one of my roses in their inventory, they make no effort to contact me to even ask "Do you want us to pay you a royalty for this rose?" The biggest factor that led to my quitting breeding of new roses was that the R&D cost me money - far more than the wee bit of revenue my work generated.

Paul. It's a shame that dishonesty and disrespect for the talent of others is so prevalent in rose culture. However, because of your work. so many of us have been blessed by your "creations". Oshun is my favorite of your roses. It gives me great pleasure. Your work has not been in vain.Thank you.

Josh,
I grow Won Fang Yon in middle Tennessee and it is gorgeous! Mel's Heritage arrived this fall and is in my garage because of its itty bittiness.
I have Jeri too, and she is gorgeous and did well the last two summers for me "no spray". But I probably water way more than the average gardener.
I'm looking forward to purchasing Golden Buddha.
I think your idea is great! Are these folks rosarians? Cause if they have triplets coming you might want to include "rose care" in the package. YIKES!
Susan

"because of your work. so many of us have been blessed by your "creations". Oshun is my favorite of your roses. It gives me great pleasure. Your work has not been in vain.Thank you."

Its succinct comments like this that make the disappointments seem trivial, and the failure to create a self-sustaining endeavor inconsequential. Revenue is just a resource. Genuine appreciation is lasting and exponentially more valuable.

Thank you.

Paul,

Just to let you know, I hardly spray my roses anymore, in fact, I had probably only sprayed a couple of times last year and JJ did beautifully. Some bs, but not enough for me to get the Bayer out.

I think it has to do with it's being matured in my garden now.

{{gwi:232759}}

Paul

Thank you so much for answering my request and in such helpful detail! I am printing your reply for reference and will begin making rose choices this spring. Also, thank you for supplying the info re La Ville. Like all the other fans on this forum, I deeply appreciate your hard work in the field of rose breeding. I have followed your efforts for a long time and am excited to finally be able to include some of your gems in my garden. Each of your roses is a testament to the time, energy, and other resourcs you invested in creating beautiful, healthy plants which will grace our gardens and lives for years to come. Thank you!

And for all those wonderful photos posted by various members, thank you, too!

Carol

Paul, I've said it in other threads, but I'm not sure if you saw them -- I'm loving 'Golden Buddha'. It came as a new baby band, along with a bunch of others, just last Spring, but was doing very well until it went to sleep for Winter. I know it will stay short, and that's perfect for where I planted it. There's a lot of blackspot pressure here in NJ, yet it remained almost totally clean without chemical intervention (I did see three or four spotty leaves by late Autumn, but by then, who cares?). So thank you, again, for your creations. They are cherished.

Now....when can I get 'Carolyn Supinger'? I know, I know..."contact RVR"...but just letting you know I've been checking, and can't wait to add that one.

:-)

~Christopher

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Carolyn Supinger' at HelpMeFind

Christopher:
"Now....when can I get 'Carolyn Supinger'? I know, I know..."contact RVR"...but just letting you know I've been checking, and can't wait to add that one."

I surrendered all but the original plant of 'Carolyn Supinger' to Janet at RVR over a year ago, and it was her plan to have it propagated immediately to build up inventory. I do not know the state of production of the cultivar at this time. So, did you call RVR to inquire, and if so, what information were you given? You probably know more about it right now than I do!

Paul,
It's always great to hear your perspectives and opinions. You are my most trusted rose adviser. If your website was a book, it would surely be dog-eared and tattered by now due to my frequent usage.

I have found 'Marianne', so far, to be extremely vigorous and healthy. I also have 'Rook' and am anxious to see both of these roses grow up. I plan to acquire 'Mel's Heritage', 'Gallicandy' and 'Crested Damask' this spring.

Best regards,
Chris

It's a shame to hear that Northland Rosarium would be so dishonest about the whole thing. That pretty much settles my mind about whether I will ever be a customer there.

And drat! I had tried to order Marianne off my phone, and apparently the order didn't go through (stupid contraption). I just realized this today when I hadn't received an invoice yet, and when I went to check RVR 'Marianne' was sold out. Ah well, next year!

But in all seriousness Mr. Barden, your efforts have not gone unappreciated. Hopefully we can keep your roses around for when the world emerges from the dark age we are entering.

Josh

Welcome to RVR's waiting list, Josh. You're in good company. :-)

"It's a shame to hear that Northland Rosarium would be so dishonest about the whole thing. That pretty much settles my mind about whether I will ever be a customer there. "

I don't believe there is anything "dishonest" about Northland Rosarium's decision to include one of my roses in their inventory without contacting me, since this is done all the time, all over the world, with roses that are not patented. It is assumed that nurseries can do as they wish in this regard. I don't expect differently, but that doesn't mean that I don't feel disappointment that breeders are not given more respect for the work they have sent into the world.

Nothing about Northland's choices and actions should make you think of them as "dishonest" or unworthy of your business. I will state that in no uncertain terms that I do not want my comments to be turned into "witch hunt fodder".

Paul, did you copyright the name?

Mr. Barden,

Once again the nuances on the English language have eluded me. I did not mean to suggest they were being deceptive by not contacting you, but rather that I feel it would have been more honorable to be forthcoming with you. Seeing as they acknowledge on their page that they know exactly where the rose came from, in my opinion they should be compelled to seek permission or compensate you. Plagiarism in the literary and artistic communities is not acceptable, and I can't help but feel this is a similar situation; perhaps in my youthful naivety I am being too "black and white" about the whole thing. Yet if we do not reward those who work to continue the legacy of hybridizing by, at the least, respectful observance of their efforts, how can we hope to encourage others to perpetuate this class of plants? I know it is a hard time for nurseries economically, but I would hope to see greater respect and honor for those who give us years of their labor.

I too do not want this to be a witch hunt on Northland. We need all the nurseries we can these days.

Josh

Well I just got an email today from Rogue Valley Roses with several of Paul's roses in it and, YIKES!, they're all gorgeous. So how does one decide? Incantations caught my eye right away, looks like a peony, and Beautiful Anne is, well, BEAUTIFUL!

The one I'm most interested in is Song of the Stars. Anyone in the Southeast grow that one? I wonder how the plant does, and how it compares to Alain Blanchard.

I was searching for Paul Barden's beautiful Marianne gallica rose and found this forum! Does anyone know where I can purchase Marianne besides Rogue Valley? They are out of stock and I really want to buy this beautiful rose for my mother for Mother's Day. Her name is Marianne so I can't think of a better rose for her than this one! Help Me Find also only shows Rogue Valley. I appreciate anyone's help as a google search didn't turn up any other place to buy either. Thanks! Alicia

Here is a link that might be useful: Alicia47 question

I just want to bump up this older thread because I am absolutely bewitched by this rose. It's in full bloom right now, and I keep going out in to the yard to pay it a visit. Big, buttery blossoms and an intoxicating fragrance.
{{gwi:232760}}

I received it as a band from Rogue Valley Roses only last spring, and you can see how big it's gotten already (it's dropping a little due to some heavy rains earlier today).
{{gwi:232761}}
I know will look forward to this rose's stunning display every spring.
-Chris

That is so beautiful! Just wish this rose was avaliable in Australia.

I got Marianne as a tiny start, it's now 9 feet tall by 8 feet wide. It's never had any disease, gets by on minimal water and is covered in fragrant blooms every spring. A great rose.

I have a one year old Marianne from RVR and ditto it is great! Their La Ville de Bruxelles is the real thing like Paul said.

I echo jumbojimmy's comment, but as I don't get what people call winter chill, because our lowest temps very rarely reach 32F, Marianne might not be a rose for my garden. Sigh!

I have a Marianne I got as a band last summer from RVR, I have it in partial shade. Can Marianne take partial shade as a once bloomer? She hasn't taken off yet but I planted her straight in the ground as a band, or is the partial shade holding her back? Right now she is buried in snow but I can't wait for the first blooms. I also have October Moon and Jeri Jennings and love them both, I think they get a little more sun and are progressing well.

Marianne can definitely take partial shade. I have three plants and the one in shade is perhaps doing best. I didn't expect those little bands from RVR to grow so tall and will move two of them to shadier positions. They are definitely American in size and nothing like my other more demure gallicas.

Any nurseries in the EU growing this rose? Once bloomers sell better in Europe than in the States as I understand, so it's a pity if this rose is as good as stated but is not available across the pond.

I wanted Marianne where I have Agnes Nik, but was unable to find it. I think I'd still rather have Marianne although I'm also keeping my eye out for a Rolf Siever's rose, Aimiable Blush. Thus far, my google fu is not turning anything up but I live in hope.

Paul! You always sound sad when I come across your thoughts (the end of your blog, some of your thoughts here). You have given wonderful gifts to humanity that will extend well beyond your lifetime. Vocation and career/financial compensation do not always coincide (nor are they meant to), and vocations also have seasons; it's okay to rest.

I am a 35-year-old who has recently become possessed by growing roses, specifically the old fragrant ones, especially cream colors. I will help carry the torch until the flames of popularity are fanned again. I have an inkling the young ones ("crystal children") just coming of age who love the old clothes and hairstyles will bring about a rose renaissance in their 40s, but that's just my guess. (I had NO IDEA the English and old garden roses I was in love with all over Pinterest for my wedding could actually be grown in my garden, for instance.) Take heart! All is not lost.

Paul,

We're living in a world where uniqueness is not appreciated as they should, but that doesn't mean it will be this way forever.

Your talent has inspired so many of us and expanded a brand new horizon in this mundane world. Please don't ever give up your dreams, as it is our dream too to have your very humble creations to keep showing the world how beautiful one thing can be!

Keep up your fab work, we will always have faith in you!