You need Alister Stella Gray..I just got Comtesse de Nohera, so I can't report on it yet. I don't really know the others..Marchel Niel is supposed to be gorgeous, but I think it needs a protected spot....I vote, for those 3.

Here is the roses I would have on your list.

Pleasant Hill Cemetary, small flowers and thin wirey canes. Some mildew issues but otherwise very healthy. Can reach a cane length of fifteen feet the first summer.

Bouquet d'Or, thick canes just like Mme Alfred Carriere with large leaves and very nice large flowers which become more yellow as the sun hits them.
It's cold tolerence is much the same as MAC so there are no problems there.

Alister Stella Gray, a very nice bushy TN.

Lance

Ley's Perpetual may do well for some people, but for me it grew at a glacial pace (which means it basically didn't grow at all) and I gave it a nice burial. It's supposed to be very lovely, but I wouldn't know.

Ingrid

Lance, since you have had experience with Pleasant Hill, would you recommend it for a spot near a doorway? I've been thinking on getting it for a while, Vintage really talks it up. And does Bouquet d'Or get as huge as MAC?

Ingrid, thanks for the heads-up on Ley's, I think I will steer clear of it.

Melva, I have heard Marechal Niel is gorgeous as well. I have been holding back on it from reports that it really needs a warm zone. Does Alister look like it might be trainable to an obelisk?

Has anyone from zone 7a had any experience with Marechal Niel? The spot I have laid out for it is in a corner, protected from both the north and west winds, with full southern exposure. My Mermaid loved it and Mermaid is reported to be rather tender.

Pleasant Hill would be great for a spot near the front door. It has a musk rose scent but slightly sweeter and the prickles are not very numerous. The canes remain very trainable for months after they harden off rather than turning stiff and breakable like some climbers do.

Bouquet 'Or has not been a large growing rose at all for a tea-noisette. After nine years it is twelve feet wide and seven feet at the tallest point. It has all of the best features of MAC without taking over huge expanses of property.

Great, looks like both Pleasant Hill and Bouquet d'Or are going to make the cut. I need one more and I would like for it to be Marechal Niel, I just need a little enabling. Has anyone in zone 7a had any luck with it?

I have had and lost both Bouquet d'Or and Marechal Niel. Roses don't die in my garden - I've got a drip system, so I don't lose them to drought. But for whatever reason I've lost some of these type of roses.
I'm trying Marechal Niel again, though, cause it's so beautiful.
I've got a baby Pleasant Hill, just a year and a half old, so I can't comment on it yet.
But my ASG is wonderful. Blooms all of the time. I've got it over one half of a trellis and it is a wonderful leaning type climber. I can't imagine training it on an obleisk.
You didn't mention Mme Berard, but it is one of my absolute favorite roses, and a T-N. Not a beautifully shaped shrub, though ... I think it would do better as a really stout climber.
It's funny that ASG and Mme Berard are even in the same class. As mentioned above, ASG is a beautifully full bushy climber - there aren't any in my garden except for Renae that can top it for repeat blooming and overall health. Mme Berard is sparsely foliaged, sends out big huge canes instead of twiggy canes like ASG, and isn't nearly as disease resistance. But the blooms are worth it.

FWIW, I've read old material which indicated that Marechal Niel needed to be budded to perform well.

Jeri

I'm going to have to look closer at Mme. Berard, I haven't heard of her before. Do you think she would confine herself to an obelisk? And Alister is looking good, though my husband says no more wall climbing or trellises close to the house (Mermaid wrecked that for me), only obelisk or something like it. I may have to order ASG and put it somewhere else...
The two New Dawns I have growing up an arbor in the same location look bad, I think there was some grafted root stock left when I dug up the two Golden Showers that used to reside there. I am thinking of replacing the NDs with Pleasant Hill, will it cover a 9'x6' arbor? And does the foliage look good enough for a large application even when out of bloom? We have a dormant season mid-summer when the heat is extreme.

Of what you ask about I grow Marechal Niel....and it's still tinky after 2 or 3 years...would not replace it if it died (own root by the way).

Bouquet d'Or took me 3 tries, and the current one is living. I have gotten maybe 3 flowers...but some kids stepped on it, so it is a survivor.

I have Alister Stella Gray still as an adolescent. Not a flower yet, so I cannot tell. My friend down the street has a magnificent specimen so I know it can do well here.

I know you did not mention it, but one which does very well for me here is Mme. Berard. I got that and another one called "Adam", and they both grow so much the same, I'd think they were the same rose...but I am no expert. Here in this garden, Mme. Berard is spectacular.

Another one that does beautifully is Chromatella. It has the vigor that Marechal Niel lacks, at least here.

Tea Noisettes are beautiful.

I'm interested in hearing about Chromatella. For some reason, this rose is always on my wish list, but it always gets bumped off. Is there something exceptional about it? color? fragrance? disease resistance?

I'm wondering, now, whether it would be a good "substitute" for Marechal Niel...a strong yellow Tea-Noisette. How does it compare to William Allen Richardson..or are they totally different.

Thanks.

Robert

Hearing very high marks for Mme. Berard, and she is very likely to bump Bouquet d'Or off my to-get-now list. Vintage really talks up Bd'O, but the reports from you all says nay. Also, again, will pass over Marechal Niel (sob), will just not work for my zone, but sounds like MN really doesn't work well for anyone.

I have a Gloire de Dijon already on my order from Vintage (19.50,eek!), but is supposed to be a good clone line and I will cross my fingers. Rumor has it that GdD is a fragile thing, but have put off getting her so long, figured just best to get it over with and learn the hard way.

Still leaning towards Pleasant Hill, but would love more reports first. And ASG is making the cut so far.

Jerome, I don't think Vintage has Chromatella in stock now, wonder if anyone else carries it?

If anyone else has any suggestions, would love to hear them!! Enabling rocks! :)

I got my Chromatella from Roses Unlimited...and Pat has amazing plants.

I in no way meant to down-play Bouquet d'Or. It has been a survivor here, because the plant I put in was stepped on by a kid tramping through the gardens when it was still a very small plant. It has survived. I look forward to its maturity.

I don't have any really old (older than 2 years) tea-noisettes here. The most vigorous for me have been Mme. Berard and Chromatella.

If you would like to see a beautiful photo of Mme. Berard, go back several pages of earlier posts (page 3, I think). The title of the post is "What (currently) Would You Name as the Most Beautiful Roses". The picture of Mme. Berard is posted by cweathersby in NE TX. Also, a little farther on in the thread cweathersby talks a bit about the rose's traits.
If you didn't see that thread before, be prepared for the photos to take a while to come up - EVERYBODY posted pix of their favorites. Be also prepared to swoon over all of them!
Laura

Sorry - the title of that post should have been "What (currently) Would You Name as the Three Most Beautiful Roses".
Laura

OMG Laura, what a great beauty is Mme. Berard!!! I followed your advice to peek at cweatherby's photo and immediately emailed Vintage to add it to my ongoing order, gotta have it. Thanks to Laura and the power of great enabling!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the compliment on my picture. I'm not a good photographer - that rose is just THAT beautiful.
Here are some more of the same rose - notice how variable the blooms are. Sometimes tightly packed and quartered, sometimes looser. Sometimes wonderfully flesh colored, with deep nuances of color and other the shadings are pinker. But the color may change - the scent does not!
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Marechal Niel has performed well for me. I purchased mine from Vintage. Last year it was about 4 X 5 after 3 years, a slow grower, but consistent. I moved it last fall to a new location where it can start to climb as it grows. This rose bloomed, lots of blooms, 2 months after I moved it! I was so surprised as everyone claims it to be a finicky rose. I would not be without this rose. It is my favorite. The one at Vintage climbs up over an arbor and is at least 8 feet tall. As mine is a cutting from Vintage, I expect the same size growth, eventually.

I also have BdO, which is a slow grower. However, it is growing and I have patience. I expect by year 3 or so, it should be taking off nicely. I tried GdD twice and it died, twice. I also tried Ley's Perpetual and it died, though I think it may have come back if I had given it a chance. I think these roses need at least three years before any decision is made regarding their removal from the garden.

Joanne

Joanne,
I wish that I could even try MN, but it would surely turn into a popsicle the first winter here. It is so tempting...

My GdD is from Vintage and they herald it as a superior clone strain. We shall see...

cweatherby, Mme. Berard is so beautiful, thank you for the pics, I am looking forward to getting mine, (if it's not out of stock).

Greybird, I have a few baby T-Ns in the ground almost a year (Duchesse d'Auerstadt, Reve d'Or, Chromatella, Crepuscule). I'll have more to say about them next year, but so far they're doing fine. Handled recent temps near 20 degrees fine except for a few crispy tips. Crepuscule is the slowest, but it's had a couple of flowers whereas Chromatella has not yet. I studied Vintage's catalog descriptions to make my choices (bulletproofness was important) along with my personal taste for bolder colors. I got Lamarque last month locally and have Jaune Desprez and Wm Allen Richardson on order from Ashdown to be here in a few weeks :))

I got Lamarque to grow with Don Juan, hoping he'll make some shade for DJ. I potted it up in mid-December, and it's got a tiny bud on it now!!!

Jaune Desprez was a no-brainer after I saw Cass's website (see below) and read "with enough vigor to live in a 12" wide strip of dirt next to the electric meter in the asphalt parking lot." I've been looking for a rose to put in that much space between my garage & front walk - plus it's supposed to be very healthy not to mention gorgeous.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: Cass's Jaune Desprez story

greybird, You are MOVING Mermaid? How? With a front end loader maybe? I don't have Mermaid, I have Alba Odorata. It was cut back to the ground last summer and has grown back about 10 feet over the winter. I don't like to even get close enough to prune it. I can't imagine trying to dig it up. I have the Vintage clone of Gloire de Dijon. It has done very well for me in zone 9.

Sherry, my Crepuscule is just been sitting there as well. I have very high hopes it is one of those that has to get settled in good before shooting up like a rocket. My Jaune Desprez is another story, growing as a large pillar rose. Our winters keep her pruned to a reasonable size. I guess the only thing about her that I am not too crazy about is how long her laterals get, growing out at a 45 dgree angle from the main canes and easy to snap off. I probably have her too constrained growing up one side of that narrow arbor. But she is a great beauty, mutable shades according to temp and light, a bloom machine. Very healthy.
My Lamarque is shooting up finally, after 3, maybe 4 years. Very healthy, beautiful ivory-tinged-with-cream flowers. The frost keeps her nipped as well. My Reve d'Or is still a baby, but growing well. MAC is a monster, healthy and beautiful. Celine Forestier is not looking so hot as of late, I think she needs a good, reviving pruning.

Nastarana, well I have gotten so far as to prune Mermaid down (blood, bandages, colorful language). Reckon she
is considered a briar rose? LOL Those basals are tree like, truthfully I don't really know how it is going to go from here. And super to hear about your good luck with the Vintage GdD, hope she will work for me. How long have you have her?

So sorry, greybird, I really did read your post completely the first time, but when I opened it again yesterday, I only checked the replies to see what others were suggesting. Now I know why they didn't mention these. But thank you for describing your T-Ns. That will be useful info down the road.

Sherry