Hi Marina,

There is a mature Salet in the rose garden at Ben Lomond House in Manassas. It is about 5 feet by 5 feet and has a marvelous scent. I am not sure how much care these roses receive, but Salet seemed to be more healthy than a lot of the roses in the garden.

Kathy

Here is a link that might be useful: Ben Lomond House

Hi Marina,

My Salet and Gloire des Mousesex are each about 4x4. Salet is really a wonderful little rose. The flowers remind me a lot of Marchessa Bocella or Sidonie.

Robert

Thank you fellow Virginians Kathy and Robert! :)
Kathy, I used to live 15 minutes drive from Manassas and never been to the Ben Lomond House. I would love to go there some time when roses are blooming.
Thanks again,
Marina

René d'Anjou in my garden is only one year old and is already 4x4. I don't know what the mature size would be.

Surpasse Tout - approx 4x5 for me

Jenny Duval- the rose itself is not so big, provably also 4x4, but it grows suckers like crazy. My JD is also from Pickering and usually grafted gallicas don't give suckers for me, but this one is an exception.

Juliete - just planted it this fall, would be interested to know the size myself

Olga

Clio is a very thorny and vertical rose. After three years in my old garden it is about seven or eight feet tall, with 2-3 long canes. I think it is worth giving a little extra care, and maybe structural support, because of its distinctive fragrance and color and densly petaled flowers. Not that it is a flopper, but maybe it would bloom more if the canes were trained in some way.

Marina,

Ben Lomond is not in very good shape. I believe they had RRD wipe out a lot of the roses. I do not get a chance to visit very often, but last time I was there, I noticed they had taken out some of the OGRs and replaced them with some modern Hybrid Tea roses.

Kathy

Replacing OGRs with HTs? Blasphemy

They've got it backwards don't they?

Robert

Thank you Olga and Patrick!!! I appreciate your input.
Kathy, Robert, I agree that replacing OGRs with modern HTs is awkward, to say the least.
I have one more question. Some roses I ordered are 'smaller size, reduced price'. What does this mean? How small is 'smaller'?
Marina

I have every rose on your list except Clio and am Zone 7 like you except it doesn't get as warm here in the summer I expect. I probably got most of mine from Pickering too. Expect roses in general to get at least a foot higher than Pickering suggests unless you are a pruner. I would give the Mosses 5X5 to be safe and the Gallicas, though 4X4 with moderate pruning would usually work. Chloris gets quite large. It is a long caned Alba rather different from the usual Alba growth(rather like Great Maidens Blush) but being totally thornless it is easy to place. I keep mine in a narrow slot about 5'wide by pegging it forward. It easily reaches 7'or more high. My Fürstin von Pless has been problematic-doesn't want to do a thing. It is a Hybrid Rugosa of course and spray drift can be a problem if you are planning on spraying. You need to account for that in spacing. Surpass Tout is one of my favorite Gallicas and as Olga said Jenny Duval will sucker vigorously...but it is a lovely rose. René d'Anjou is my best repeating Moss-better than Salat here. Mme de la Roche-Lambert gets Damask Perpetual crud here but has a beautiful spring bloom first. It repeats well but I dont spray with anything that keeps the crud truely at bay(sulfur) It is low and arching for me. Prince Napoléon is a very nice arching typical Bourbon. I suspect that it could get large. Mine has only been in the ground a couple of years from a band. You made some wonderful choices. As for the smaller size, Pickering grafted roses are generally smaller than the usual grafted #1 in the US because they are on multiflora. They are graded the same though, based on the number of canes. A 1 1/2 will be somewhat smaller and have fewer canes but every one I ever got that way did really well-by the end of the first season you could not tell. You will think they are puny but dont worry.

patricia

Patricia,
Thank you for invaluable information - what a great help in placement of my new acquisitions.
Marina

Stand back, where Mme Legras de St Germain is concerned! Mine in zone 5, in an exposed northern spot, is a great mounding thing - about 4' at the top of the arching canes, which are of course much longer. No diseases - when others are getting blackspot, she is fine. Of course, she is in isolation on that side of the house, maybe it just doesn't get that far. Also - and this is such a BONUS - she roots from the tips if you weight them down. I made several little ones for my sister by making a shallow trench, laying in about 15 inches of soft cane, putting a rock on it leaving about 6 inches free at the end. Did this in spring, by fall I dug out nicely rooted little roses.
And it smells really good - I put a little spray of them in a granite vase on my dark green bathroom counter.
I wonder how big this will get where you are?

1 René d'Anjou 6x5
11.Jenny Duval - suckers like mad, 5x5 if you try to contain it but will get bigger if you let it.
13.Salet - 4x4

Thank you very much, Sunnysideuphill and Lori!!!
I really appreciate your information.
Knowing that Jenny Duval suckers a lot, I probably should plant her where I would not mind her suckering. And, I would love to have a thicket of this awesome Gallica!!!! (space permitting)
Thank you again for your help.
Marina