I've always been really impressed with Vintage's selection of both roses and hydrageas. But being a student I'm terrified of their prices, otherwise I would buy so many things from there. It's the shipping that concerns me the most!

I have plain old Nikko blue hygrangea bushes from Home Depot that will most likely look good this year. I've found they are very, very thirsty plants in the summer here in MD.

My aunt had the PRETTIEST hydrangea on the property of her really old cottage. I need to ask her what she thinks it is, if she planted it or if it was there or what, but the delicateness of it is wonderful, and far better colors and flowers than what my three year old Nikkos produce, much softer. It's probably an antique, I'll have to ask if she has a sucker or something she could part with.

I have some climbing hydrangea as well, which has been REALLY and I mean REALLY slow to take off. It hasn't even latched onto the front of our garage like I wanted yet.

Max

Other alternatives to Vintage for the hydrangea are Forest Farm and Lazy S's here in Virginia. I have purchased from both of them and have been satisfied. I can even pick up directly from Lazy S's so it saves on shipping cost and stress on the plants.

Kathy

Here is a link that might be useful: Lazy SS Farm

I ordered 6 hydrangeas last year from hyd+. I'm not very good with hydrangeas at all, mine started wilting 2 hrs after i planted them, never to return. It seemed no amount of water or anything satisfied them. I am just thankful i only bought 6 instead of 60! BAA!! I wish you luck.

Robert, our hydrangeas just fried last summer in the drought. We've removed most of them. We also had the brilliant idea of putting some in a woodsy area, but they suffered and stayed puny in the dry, dry soil there. I'm not sure what a good situation would be for hydrangeas, but I'm pretty sure it's not in my yard.

Lila

There are different kinds of hydrangeas that can take different amounts of sun. The paniculatas are great in the sun - try limelight; it makes my heart go pitter patter. or PeeGee (paniculata grandiflora)

Or try an oakleaf, (quercifolia); they're good in sun/part shade. The nurseries in my area might not carry antique roses, but they do carry a number of great hydrangeas.

Madame Mouilliere is a favorite white that likes shady conditions. Some mopheads (macrophylla) have been developed that bloom on new wood so they bloom all summer. Penny Mac is a good one, I think.

Enjoy learning about these, Robert; hydrangeas are a lot of fun. I learned a lot by looking at a website called hydrangeashydrangeas.

Now, I need to learn something about clematis ...

Here is a link that might be useful: hydrangeas, friend of roses

But they do like water...

I'm growing a young oakleaf hydrangea from Vintage in a part sun location. I also have two small hydrangeas that came with the property when we moved here twelve years go. I've moved them a couple of times and they seem happiest for me in a medium shade situation, where they want a medium amount of garden water. They are definitely not a xeriscape plant but I don't exactly think of them as a bog plant, either.

If you want expertise, you probably will have to hang out on the hydrangea forum. I think the roses forums are the most active, but you can get good information from most of the forums on Gardenweb.

I have a couple from there, 'Ayesha' and the variegated lacecap species, can't remember the name, something Tricolor. They are nice. I have them in areas where the drainage is a little poor, and that isn't sunny enough for a rose, which in a dry climate means the soil is reasonably moist enough of the time.

I tried to blue them up with aluminum sulphate, and the Tricolor one really got blue; it was gorgeous against the variegated foliage. Ayesha got a little lavender but not really blue. Hydrangeas are very easy to root, much easier than roses.

I appreciate all the responses. Robert

I bought one hydrangea from hydrangeas plus. It's called Europa and it has the most beautiful blue/purple flowers. I have one Nikko blue that has grown well after suffering the first year (it drooped every afternoon in the hot summer days), but I think it has finally established itself, because it did not droop all last summer, even with the drought. It didn't bloom that much, since it was badly zapped by the Easter Freeze (it looked like rotten spinach after that). I also bought a pink one, but that turned bluish the 2nd year and is indiscernible from the Nikko blue.

Last year I planted an Annabelle hydrangea. It has 3 nice big blooms. Then someone or something snapped the stem and the blooms dried up and turned a nice green color. I actually still have them in the house as dried flowers! I hope it comes back this year.

I think you should try some, be patient. Offer shade for them and plenty of water until they get established.

Robert, I grow a PeeGee standard in full sun and it does well. Sometimes in late summer when the heat is extreme it droops during mid day but perks right back up in the evening. Blooms beautifully and without fail in late summer/early fall. I also have a variegated, blue lace cap that grows on the side of my house in very little sun that seems very happy and blooms well in spring. I think the secret is lots of water until they are established. I love my hydrangea's but I haven't developed an addiction to them yet. Of course, I also love my gardenia, weigela, quince,jasmine....I haven't considered digging any of them up to plant a rose in their place ....:-). Now, clematis are another story, totally addicted to them. Almost as bad as my rose addiction.

Carol

I have one oakleaf, one lacecap and a variety of mopheads and I find that the lacecap is not as demanding for water. The others, however, wilt daily during the heat of the summer. I now know that they will not die of thirst as long as I water them adequately and when they bloom (starting mid-May here) I forget the hot days that I was tempted to get rid of their wilted little bodies. I will say, however, that after a couple of years in the ground, they "toughened" up. Here in Texas the heat is brutal so they need to be protected from full sun, except for early morning. The dozens of dried flowers you will be collecting will be a bonus. I'm glad I was persistant and didn't give up on them. I can't suggest any sources for them as most of mine have been grown from cuttings or from local nurseries.
molly

Most hydrangeas like humus-like soil and some shade, particularly in the south, but peegees will do with less shade. Pour the pinestraw to them. You will be the benefactor.

All hydrangeas droop in the hot afternoon sun when they are conserving water which they love.

If it was me, Robert, I would wait until my roses have matured more and then start the hydrangea thing. Then, you will know what roses you want to keep and if there are areas where hydrangeas might serve the landscape better. Give yourself a couple more years. Hydrangeas are wonderful but their needs are somewhat different from roses in the South, but not totally. Take babysteps into hydrangeas as you go.

Lord, I won't tell you why I say that but as the former owner of 40+ hydrangeas, more than 200 azaleas and now hundreds of roses --- just take life one plant at a time.

Oh, Patricia, your property must have been a garden of eden!

I have a 2.5-year-old grocery store hydrangea that is still 8" tall. It bloomed lavender last year - very pretty. Should I give up on this one? We don't have freezes sufficient to bother them - at least so far this season. My soil is naturally neutral to higher PH, but I put azalea fert on them. I'm told the lavender comes from neutral PH. I have 2 Oakleafs that really started growing last summer when I started giving them extra water - like everyday. And I got an Endless Summer that I'm excited about. I have 2 Pinky Winky babies that can take full sun even in Z9, but only one in the ground and I just figured out where to put the other one. And I have a Limelight. They are pretty slow to establish and attain size. I keep waiting and waiting. I may pull out the stunted one and get another that blooms on new wood. The other thing I didn't bank on is their deciduousness. Not used to that down here where most everything stays green. They're starting now to bud. Spring can be a long time coming here, too!
Sherry

To my mind, the paniculata and serrata types represent the best confluence of growability and garden-worthiness. Hydrangea paniculata 'Tardiva', Hydrangea serrata 'Beni-gaku', and Hydrangea serrata 'Miyama-yae-murasaki' are definitely favorites of mine. The latter is utterly stunning as a purple, despite what Vintage says (they probably don't have soil that's acid enough to see what it can really do). Of the macrophyllas, I really like 'Nigra', 'Mme. Emile Mouilliere', and I've heard that 'Frillibet' is a good one. I wish I could comment better on the repeat-bloomers, but the Endless Summer was a real disappointment - I saw and grew a lot of them back in Minnesota around the time they were released. Often, only one plant in ten would actually manage to repeat reliably for a while, and rumors of greater winter stem hardiness than the species were more or less pure fiction.

I have Annabelle, Mme Emile Mouillre, Soeur Therese and a few others from Vintage. Annabelle blooms for a shorter period of time, but has spectacular white blooms, which turn to green at the end. Mme EM and ST are also white and bloom forever. They all are around 4 X 4, though Annabelle would grow taller if I let her. The effect of the white pom-pom blooms against the green foliage is breathtaking. I grow these in the entryway to the front door, so the air flow is reduced. They get direct overhead sun, so I covered the area with a 20% shade cloth, which works quite well. I have never had any disease on these hydrangeas. If I had more room, I would love to grow some of the bigger varieties.

I'd say Endless Summer really created an Endless Summer around here. They turned to hot lettuce. Reading up on them, they are native to the coast of Japan. I think they need that cool ocean breeze.
I have a PG which never bloomed until I moved it to the shade. Annabelle only blooms on old wood so it's still waiting to get some of that wood through the winter.

Due to water concerns we removed the mopheads (off to a good home) from the arboretum gardens this year and put in a new planting of oakleaf hydrangeas. The oakleafs are in a bed with morning sun & excellent drainage & seem very happy; we expect them to get huge so they're about 6 feet apart! Up by the old homestead we have a lacecap which has been competing with an 8 foot deep juniper hedge and a 5 foot holly hedge & blooming magnificently with no water. Of course it's a very well-established plant. We took the junipers out so I am expecting great things from the lacecap this year; again it is getting morning sun only & of course enjoying all the runoff from the roof.

The Endless Summer really is the Knockout of hydrangeas and it does bloom incessantly in season. This is the one hydrangea that all speakers at garden shows recommend without a doubt. If you live in or near Birmingham, Alabama, Aldridge's is a place you should visit in hydrangea season!!!!

Sherry, I have to admit, my mother was in the business and when she became disabled, she sold it to my SIL. :)

I have to admit that I do have about 10 different hydrangeas already. I love them. They root so easily, that I'm able to get cuttings from plants, and I can start my own.

I love the Oakleaf, Peegee, mopheads, lacecaps, Annabelle, and a bunch I've no idea what variety. ...some I'm not really sure if they're hydrangeas or viburnums. I can't always distinguish them...I have the old fashioned snowball bush which I think is a viburnum. I'll check out the varieties mentioned.

Patricia, I appreciate your words of caution. Right now, my heart is definitely into the roses (and clematis). I've got over 500 different varieties of roses...only about 80 different clematis. I'll go slow with the hydrangeas.

Robert

Robert,
My mother ordered hydrangeas from Vintage after our visit this summer. They were huge! I was really surprised considering the sizes that bands can be.
But I have got to suggest - if you are considering a new obsession, why don't you try some winter blooming plants? Hydrangeas, roses, and clematis are just about the ugliest things on earth for the 4 months or so that winter is here.

I have a macrophylla "Veitchii", which is a stunning plant when covered with flowers. The outer flowers are white, and the inner ones blue. The picture at Vintage does not do it justice, but I agree with the description.

I have read that if they wilt in the afternoon and are not wilted the next morning, they are hydrated adequately. But if they are still wilted in the morning, they are very thirsty! After all, "hydra" in the name means water. In the south, they are happiest underneath tall trees whose shade protects them. The tree roots also suck up water from the soil so this competes with the hydrangeas roots. I would be heartbroken if I couldn't have my blue hydrangeas! The blue flowers and bright green foliage is so cooling in the shade of my big trees. I use alum sulfate too with great results! Limelight is an awesome new variety, with elegant long, cream panicle blooms that start out lime green. Supposedly, you can prune them to the ground each spring and they will still bloom (on new wood). Others like this are Penny Mac and Endless Summer. The old varieties bloom on old wood. That's why a late freeze can eliminate all flowers sometimes and you can't hard prune them except right after blooming. I love my hydrangeas as much as my roses. They grow in separate areas of my yard. Buff

I have one hydrangea that dispels the statement that hydrangea are ugly during the winter. It is an unknown paniculata which still has dried flower heads. It is interplanted with Giant Red Pussy and Curly Willows. They do give the garden some winter interest. If you are interested, Robert, I can root some cuttings of it this summer. I added about 15 hydrangea last year, once they get big enough, I can share cuttings of those as well.

Also, if you are interested in other winter interest plants, I have tiny hellebore seedlings which I can share. They take about three years to get to bloom size, but it is wonderful having flowers from December to March.

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Kathy

I think you can tell the difference between hydrangeas and viburnums this way. The leaves hydrangeas are 4-ranked and the leaves of viburnums are 2-ranked (look down the stem and you'll see either 4 or 2 rows of leaves). At least it's true of all the species I know. There are many SE native viburnums that also produce berries for wildlife. However, many of them don't produce showy enough flowers for some gardeners.

I had an Endless Summer in NC that bloomed 3X annually. It was about 5X5 sheltered by the house such that it only received morning sun and had no competition from tree roots. The color was garish, sorta turquoise, surely some anomaly due to soil type (I only fed it Rose Tone, every plant in my life gets Rose Tone LOL). I'm going to try a Blushing Bride at this house to get the rebloom without a need for sunglasses.

I also had a hedge of five Bluebird lacecaps. They were stunning! The bloom period lasted about a month then the spent blooms persisted and turned interesting shades.

The nicest hydrangeas I have yet seen were in coastal Connecticut/Long Island.

Robert,
I have 3 lacecap types which are stunning all summer. I moved them to a shady area because they looked dead in the sun. I think the blooms last much longer when they are in the shade. I couldn't imagine them thriving in your Virginia sun.

I recently added an Oakleaf type which is also in partial shade. I have been able to find many varieties at a local nursery.

Last fall we added a Doublefile Viburnum which looks similar to a lacecap hydrangea. It can take more sun than a hydrangea, but the blooms don't last as long. It offers berries for summer interest.

Bluebird Lacecap Hydrangea

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Kathy (paadlehikeva), what kind of soil you have?

I tried Helleborus several times and they died out in my acidic clay. I tried to plant it a bit higher, gave the spot a bit of lime and extra compost but even the longest living one endured only two or maybe 3 years.

I cut my Annabelle's down to the ground each winter and get loads of bloom. They bloom on new wood, so if your Annabelles are not blooming on new wood, I think you might have something else instead.

Robert, Mine are in part shade and like it's said above, they do love water.

Carla

I have the hydrangea scandens 'Fragrant Splash'. It blooms quite early and is definitely fragrant, with very dark stems. I've been focusing on fragrance and early spring bloom with plant choices in the garden in addition to the rose thing. Right now the daphnes are blooming, along with the Japanese flowering apricot (Prunus mume), the sarcococca, Edgeworthia... so many other plants for fragrance, and they can fill up the shady spots!

I have several but the most recent addition to the garden is one I learned about on a walk with Gregg Lowery through the Vintage Gardens hydrangea display at Garden Valley Ranch. It was last spring and everything was in bloom, an awesome sight. I knew there wasn't much room left in my garden for plants but I asked Gregg for the name of his favorite. Beaute Vendomoise, a macrophylla lacecap, has a delicious description in their catalog and, though tiny, is just beginning to show its new green growth in the garden. I can hardly wait to see it!

Sue

Ceterum, I have what is know as Davidson Loam soil. I have read that helleborus do well in red clay, but I do not have any experience with growing them in those conditions. I grew mine from seed and planted them in the permanent spot when they had just developed the first real leaf. I understand they do not like being transplanted, but I have moved them successfully.

Kathy

I grew up on Long Island and as was said upthread, hydrangeas do well up there. I have this fixation of having lots of hostas and hydrangeas to bring me back to the gardens of my childhood. But there is way too much sun here to have them in anything but part shade.

I just lost my last rhodo last year (I'm giving up on them) and I'm going to add a hydrangea in that spot.

I have a paniculata "Limelight". This will be its second full season. Am I supposed to cut it back to the ground or just nip the tips. Last year it was bare at the beginning of May (almost summer here), and I thought I'd lost it, so I cut it back to 10". I had no more than done that (a few days) and it started sprouting. It put out four 3'-4' stems and bloomed on each end. I was afraid I didn't need to cut it that far back, and I might have had more growth if I hadn't. So what should I do this year? It still has the dried panicles on the stems.
Thanks.
Sherry