I think your problem is the Ramblin' Red -- I don't like it with any of your clematis, but I agree that the Franziska Marie is the best of the three with Ramblin' Red. If you stick with that, I'd switch and put the Josephine with William Baffin and the Crystal Fountain with Iceberg. A white clem with the Ramblin' Red would also free up Franziska Marie for the William Baffin.

-Greta

You'll need a mongo clematis to hold its own against Baffin. That's the worst of the Canadian Beast Roses.

Baffin isn't a climber. It's a large shrub you can fight (each step of the way) into growing longer canes you can wrestle in place.

Do you have a whip and a chair?

How perfect! Now Kent can rush out and buy a different rose to go with the Crystal Fountain clem. I would go with a pale pink (even though I personally don't like it) or an apricot or ... yellow -- yes! Dr. P, recommend a nice yellow climber that would work for Kent. :)

-Greta, happily designing the gardens of others who have to do all the heavy work.

If you want a nice white clematis, consider Arctic Queen--gorgeous double white.

Since I like drama, I'd probably pair Franziska Marie with Iceberg.

Different shades of pink can also look nice, so I guess you could combine Baffin and Josephine.

Kate

Didn't know that WB was a mongo shrub! Everything I've read about it sounds good though. Basically I like contrasting combos. I might look into different clems, a couple anyway. But I really wanted to try to use the ones I had because it will be their second year and they will be a little more floriferous now.

I decided to go with Clematis Henryi for the WB rose. The hot pink and white would look beautiful together. I am still not sure about planting the iceberg rose though. It's probably a Japanese Beetle and BS lover! :) Pretty though.

Update: I am trying to cancel my William Baffin rose order. After hearing your comments about him, I know I will NEVER have the room (or the time) to properly train and constantly prune him! lol I may even just stick with the Ramblin Red. How is everyones experience with Climbing Iceberg?

This is my new plan (or at least my "rough" plan lol. Added another clem lol.

Franziska Marie with the Ramblin Red rose, Clematis Henryi with Clematis Beauty of Worchester, and finally the Iceberg Rose with my Crystal Fountain.

Might have to change out crystal fountain though as it only gets to 6 ft tall while the iceberg gets up to 12 ft tall, but we'll see...

I think the Henryi/Beauty of Worcester is about the same color combo as Iceberg with Crystal Fountain. I personally would like to play with more of the palette than that. I will also say that I'm not crazy about Iceberg, even though I'm accustomed to it from Zone 9 California where it's disease proof (apparently unlike anywhere more humid). It was EVERYWHERE and while the flower production was impressive, it got boring. I realize, not a problem in a place where it's not everywhere (I also got beyond sick of Lily of the Nile).

Do you not like yellow roses? I found a couple that might work for you -- Cl. Gold Badge looks good. It would look gorgeous with Crystal Fountain.

Mind you I have never gardened in your zone so I'm kind of guessing wildly about how well these things will do.

-Greta

I like yellow roses, but most are not hardy enough to withstand NE Ohio winters. I have a yellow rose right now, the Scent from Above but it gets ugly because the yellow fades in the sun and looks washed out. If I am correct Beauty of Worchester clem is a darker purple than Crystal Fountain. Although I haven't grown BW before. In either case as I said, I can always Shovel prune crystal fountain or keep her if it looks good.

One combination I really enjoy in my zone 5 garden is the soft pink New Dawn climbing rose with the deep purple Spirit of Poland clematis. Both are prolific bloomers, and Spirit of Poland bloomed the first year I got it!

Kenstar,

Climbing Iceberg will not be hardy for you unless you find a very sheltered microclimate planting spot for it such as against a south or west facing wall. Even then, I say good luck. I have two Iceberg shrubs and both die to near the snowline each year. Ilse Krohn Superior would have been a better and hardier choice for you in white climbers. Good specimens in colder climates, actually repeat well. It is not a rose that tolerates a lot of heat so warm zoners have problems with repeat as it tends to favour growth in those conditions.

Leverkusen and Goldstern are two yellow Kordesii based climbers that should prove hardy enough in your climate if you want a yellow.

I would not recommend cancelling your order for William Baffin. While I agree on it's 'natural' growth habit and laughed really hard at all of Dr. Andre's comments, William Baffin can be trained and pruned easily enough to be a tall and slender pillar/climber. I know this because that is how I have mine trained. It just means you need to take the strongest and largest 5 canes or so and start training them early and aggressively prune out everything else. I actually have my WB's planted in half cedar barrels that I leave in place year round with no protection other than mounded snow. There grow up either side of my garage and the ultimate intent was to eventually train them over the top of the garage too. They will start doing that this year, which I believe is their 4th. I don't have any dieback whatsoever.

Example below from early June last year just as flush was commencing.

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The trellis is actually on the north side of my house but gets plenty of sun from the east and west sides. I also wasn't too sure of iceberg. Thankyou so much for all your info. I will look into the other one you suggested Ilse Krohn Superior .

Morden Man, are you saying by "very sheltered microclimate" that iceberg needs more shade? Or does it succumb to the wind?

Thanks,
kentstar

Just for fun, and to take my mind off an irritating situation totally unrelated to roses, I decided to search for yellow climbers that are hardy to zone 5.

Alister Stella Gray -- very pretty, I like this yellow a lot.
Roberta Bondar -- OK, a little sulfurous, but she's fragrant

-Greta

The problem is that just because somebody writes something down somewhere, doesn't make it true. There are very few 'zone 5' climbers that I can grow as climbers. There are a few climbers I've seen listed as hardy in zone 4 that I can't grow as climbers.

Roses listed as zone 3 are almost always hardy enough for zone 5. Anything less than that, and you really need to double check closer to home.

I'd ditch the Climbing Iceberg too.

As MG basically said, neither Roberta Bondar or Alister Stella Gray are even remotely cane hardy in zone 5. They will survive sure, but will not retain much cane come spring after a normal zone 5 winter.

Kenstar,

By microclimate, I mean locations in the garden that are more sheletered from the elements and would essentially equate that something planted in such a location would perhaps be a zone or even 2 zones warmer than the rest of your garden. Wind exposure is one factor for sure, but planting in close proximity to south facing and west walls also provides a 'microplanting', as not only are such roses more sheltered from the wind, but the brick or siding from your house also draws and retains a significant amount of heat that keeps the plants growing in that location much warmer as a result. I find south wall plantings afford the greatest microclimate effect.

The downside to planting too close to walls is that the soil next to a house tends to dry out very quickly and will require more frequent watering. Also, air circulation tends to be reduced in such locations so Powdery Mildew can be a real problem on roses susceptible to this and even on some that have above average resistance. So, there is always a trade-off.

Climbing Iceberg may be okay up against a south wall, but it would still likely be very borderline in terms of having any significant cane remaining.

Drat.

-Greta

Well, I have a 20 ft long, 6 ft high trellis that is situated NEXT to some long hedges in front. Kind of an "extension" of the hedge. I'm thinking of putting iceberg on the side of the trellis next to the hedge. It still gets a lot of sun there, but it is "somewhat" sheltered from winds being next to the hedge. The trellis is made up of 4 x 4's and wood lattice. So, some wind will get through anyway.
Thanks, for all the comments everyone! I am still VERY new to roses, and am learning by trial and error I guess.
I went ahead and cancelled the William Baffin though. I figure that if iceberg doesn't make it, I KNOW that Ramblin Red will fill in nicely! :)
kentstar

OK, I AM scrubbing the iceberg rose. I have been doing a lot of research in the last few days as well as I can, and have decided to go with Alba Maxima Rose. That should be very hardy for my zone. I don't want to take the chance of getting yet another loser :)

kenstar, I really had high hopes for Wbaffin but wouldn't plant them again. Is black spot a issue where you live? I like the wild persian yellow as a hardy yellow rose but if you have blackspot problems it may not be a good choice. Check out lillian gibson as well. If you interplant clematis and hardy once blooming roses you'll have some nice, low maintenance combos.

I had some BS last season on roses that I am shovel pruning. It does get humid, warm, and rainy here.

I am planting Ramblin Red with my already planted crystal fountain, alba maxima with clematis Rebecca and Franziska Maria, and also am planting three clems together: beauty of worcester, henryi, and josephine.
I am planting some low growing perennials around the bed: Sweet William Indian Carpet, Forget-me-nots, and Blue and White Chips Dianthus. These will shade the clem roots.
nickelmumz8, I do have a perennial garden that has bold, very dramatic colors already. Lots of orange, blues, golds, purples, some red. So, this is my "tone-it-down" and chill out garden part :)

I don't want to be a "nay sayer" here, but my Ramblin Red has quite a bit of die back every winter. I am in a little colder zone, now zoned 5, but used to be 4. I have WB, John Cabot and another explorer on my fence and they have done beautifully. Yes they do need pruning, but winter die back is not a worry. So no regrowing every spring.

I have several of the Kavistic clematis inter-planted with them.
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If it's not too late, you could substitute Quadra for the Ramblin' Red. I think Quadra has more of a blue tone that would look great with all the bluey clematis. I assume the RR is already ordered, so this may not work. I also understand Quadra won't die back in your zone.

Mary, sheesh, I am green, pink, lavender and purple with envy!

-Greta

I have also bought clematis Dr Ruppel. What a gorgeous clem!

OK, I finally lol decided that I am going with Ramblin' Red and John Cabot for my roses. Both should do well enough. John Cabot will be paired with Franziska Maria, and possibly the Rebecca Clem. Ramblin Red with Crystal Fountain (which by the way looked beautiful last summer, and bloomed a bit . For a first season that's not bad). Then I have clem Henryi, Beauty of Worcester, and Dr Ruppel in the center of the long trellis. I plan to have one rose on each end of trellis, and when I train them to meet they will (hopefully) intertwine with the clems in the center. That's my plan anyways lol...
I bought the roses at two great places. Ramblin' Red from High Country Roses, and John Cabot from Pickering Nurseries. The new clems (Beauty of Worcester, Henryi, Dr Ruppel,and Rebecca) are from Brushwood, Bluestone, and Garden Crossings. All are on Dave's Watchdog30 site as being good places to buy. In fact, Bluestone Perennials is not far from me, I may have to take a drive up there. It's only about 1/2 hour away! OH NO, that might be dangerous! I have C.H.A.D. (Compulsive Horticultural Aquisition Disorder)! lol.

William Baffin is a HUGE rose, but is one of the most hardiest roses in my yard. I have mine paired with the clematis, Huldine - a very aggresive climber and they look great together. Here's a pic from a few years ago:
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The purple plant at the base is catmint - another one of my favorites!

bellarosa...great picture and great combination... but where are the weeds?

I finally (I think) figured out how to post pics! lol. The bulbs and perennials are baby boomer dafs, blue hyacinths, campanula blue and white chips, dianthus barbatus sweet william, and forget-me-nots.

Here is the plan from paint:
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