I've witnessed this particular variety -- as in at least 4 trees -- growing in a grocery store parking lot area. Then I took cuttings and am growing my own trees. Pretty much all the leaves are the same whether in sun, shade, fast growth; slow growth, although the number of spines varies a bit. But none of the leaves are as round as other known East Palatkas I've seen in the area. East Palatka leaves seem to be more obovate to elliptical - at least from multiple images I've seen as well as actual trees. That is why I suspect it's not an East Palatka. But I'm open to any speculation. Also, East Palatka is propagated by cuttings, so it is a genetic clone. There wouldn't be THAT much variation in a clone. Seedlings, for sure, where the gene pool gets mixed and expressed differently. Also, the original trees look like they may have been planted quite a while ago -- maybe over 20 years. There is NOTHING like them elsewhere in the area that I have seen. Honestly there are so many holly hybrids that have been 'discontinued', forgotten or 'pushed out of the market' and are now virtually unknown in current markets. For example, I've never witnessed a 'Hume #2' but the written description sounds very similar to what I have. Fosters #2 and Nellie Stevens have so dominated the market that not much else has a chance. Housing developers don't want to experiment with things that might fail or aren't 'bullet proof' for their area. Nor do nurseries.

That was a very interesting post Patrick. I agree and disagree with it to an extent. With serious loss of our natural forests and large old trees as well as the rainforests, we are in desperate need of the large trees. They are the only thing standing between us and global warming right now. Without them it doesn't matter what we do to save the earth, it will still be lost. However, on the other hand, with property lots getting smaller and smaller and houses being built larger and larger, there is no room for these wonderful large trees with or without a rose garden. Hence more and more understory trees are being planted instead of the large shade trees if there are any planted at all. In my area, if you want to sell a house, especially right now, a large shade tree will sell the house, with or without the rose garden. Now, down to the nitty/gritty. I love roses too. Of all the plants in my garden the rose takes presedence. However, I'm fortunate enough to own a somewhat large lot and can also have those large trees. I realize there are few who might be as fortunate. I have 11 large shade trees ranging from beech to oak to maple to ash to fossil and a couple of others. I have almost a dozen understory trees such as dogwood, Japanese maple, cherry. I also have Vitex but use that as a large shrub. I also have a Japanese varigated willow that I keep as a shrub. Yet, I still have much room for my roses and keep right now, about 200 roses with more coming each year. My thoughts are that before planting a tree (they shouldn't be bought in a whim, EVER)each person should evaulate where the tree will be, what performance you want from it, i.e. shade, protection from wind and elements, wildlife, screening, etc., where the morning, afternoon and evening sun hits and where your flower beds are. All my roses are in full sun from dawn to dusk. Roses such as Gruss an Aachen, most of my polys anyway, seem to prefer a little shade in the middle of the afternoon. At least my Gruss an Aachen especially, hasn't performed nearly as well since I put it in full sun. It's also a very hot sun, with no shade or cooling of any kind. Most of my large trees don't shade the roses at all but they do provide a cooling of the air as it passes through them. The trees not only make the air feel better to me, but my roses seem to perform better when they are closer to the trees. It has to do with subclimates, I'm sure. I know the large shade trees are a problem for a lot of people. Most properties don't support them anymore and that's quite the shame of it. A lot of planning needs to go into the garden before one can be planted. In my garden, the closet two shade trees are 50 feet apart, with most of them closer to 80 feet apart. The sun hits my house and rose gardens in a way that even mature trees will not stop the sun from coming in. But they will cool the air and take the beating sun away. They will also provide a spot for me to escape the sun and provide food and shelter for the wildlife and the outside utilities of the house. I have visited some rose gardens that didn't have trees, where the roses sat in the beating sun. I honestly didn't enjoy it as much since, being fair skinned, the sun did such a number on me and there was no escape from it that I finally didn't enjoy the rose gardens. I want my roses, but I want my trees too. I guess I want Utopia.

Interesting. So I have been watching the fruity one for 3 years now, and it seems to have that yellowish tinge every year. I just thought it was its natural color. It does seem to have a lighter colored leaf even in summer. Below are some pix I've taken at different times of year. (Yes, I'm obsessed with the stupid tree :-). We did have a dry late summer, maybe that contributed. But on the other hand - look at the foliage color difference between the two hollies even in summer: 2016-11-12: 2017-01-12: 2017-08-16: 2019-05-22

I really do appreciate all of your comments. I will follow these instructions, toss all of the jars and then clean the area on my counter where they were storing with bleach. So I am gonna buy a pressure canner now and follow the right and safe way. Its a terrible feeling after raising 35 pepper plants which are still producing and making 12-15 quart jars of beautiful peppers and then toss them. But I wont risk getting sick. I'm gonna chk out that Ball book as well since I only have interest in canning peppers, I am sure it is an easy protocol to follow. I read pressure canners is better that water baths since it gets to a higher temp. So if I follow that method, then all should be safe then. I actually just completed a harvest 2 days ago and I have been reading all of this since and I didnt know what to do with them. SO I just washed them and placed them in the fridge for now. Maybe I will just roast or grill those for now. And my supplies will be here when its time for my next batch. I also heard if you do not have a pressure canner, you can simply sterlize your jars by boiling them and then jar your peppers in 100% vinegar and place them straight in the fridge. Anyone heard of that? Also what is the purpose of boiling the actual solution of vinegar and water?