Well I got a hold of a man at Beaver Creek Nurseries and spoke with him about Volunteer Orange. I guess they stopped doing mail orders about 10 years ago and he's pretty sure the owner wouldn't make an exception. He said next spring they'll have 1 gallon potted trees of Volunteer Orange. He recommended that I find someone in the area to use as a proxy to ship the tree to me. Does anyone live near Bear Creek Nursery and would be willing to send me a tree if pay cost of tree plus shipping? I would greatly appreciate it ;)

looks like they have a relationship with Song Sparrow, a quality mail order outfit. Maybe encourage Song Sparrow to offer it one year in their catalog?

tb101, looks like you might be heading to Tenn. next Spring, don't forget Grand Ole Opry & Graceland while you're at it :)

Since we're not your average nursery, you won't find any Bradford Pears or Leyland Cypress here!. This quote comes from Beaver Creek Nursery, I am liking them better already.

I would love to visit Sam but not in the budget on a single income with three little kids, lol. Hoping there's a Tennessee resident that can come to the rescue.

Here's a big and old Ilex opaca in my neighborhood. Kind of looks like it has been pruned over the years, but I can't imagine a homeowner spending money on that. There are no powerlines directly over it. It is unusually dense and nicely shaped.

Regarding 'Volunteer Orange', I wonder if you could convince the UT Arboretum folks to spare some cuttings and send them to a propagator somewhere. I know it's a long shot, but you never know until you try.

Ilex opaca 'Volunteer Orange'

Dave, one of mine looked almost that dense for 2-3 years, about 1 year after I had an arborist trim it because it was overhanging a driveway. They naturally 'dense up' well compared to other plants. (and some of them are just denser period) So I don't think it is as much work to do this as you think. I bet it could be done every 2 or even every 3 years. I can just imagine an older couple own this house and have kept the holly like that forever...I wonder if it gets a Christmas light display...their pride and joy.

Interesting that as I noted before, this is one of the rotund, multi-trunked cultivated hollies and almost certainly not a seedling that was allowed to grow or a tree a developer left. (only became ecologically correct recently...those houses look 1960s to me, from the era of the first cold war-driven explosion of the DC burbs) You can see ones like this in the wild, but more often than not if they grew from seedlings in forest openings they have a single trunk and a more distinguished (IMHO) conical shape. I think this is a general issue with BLEs but especially hollies; the cutting grown ones have an early tendency to form waterspouts and have multiple trunks. I am noticing that if I scrupulously remove waterspouts most of my cultivars want to have a narrow conical shape.

Hi folks, reviving this old thread, I see there are a lot of real holly experts here. So maybe you can help me out. I would love to know what kind of holly this is growing in my neighborhood. I have a few ideas but I'd rather see what you all think. As a matter of fact, Dave in Northern Virginia, you live in my area, and you may be interested in driving by to see this specimen firsthand. It's on the corner of University Drive and 123, right across from the George Mason University Field House. Let me know if you go by.

This tree is just so standout gorgeous, the pictures don't do it justice. It's to the right of another holly tree, also with berries, but the berries are smaller and there are much fewer of them. The one on the left looks more like a typical American Holly in terms of its berry production.

So let me know if you have any ideas as to what this is:

Form:

Side of tree showing how heavily berried it is:

Comparing the more common looking one on the left, the more heavily berried one on the right:

Another comparison:

Foliage, berries, berry groupings:

Dave is way better at this than me, but to me it almost looks like an Ilex X attenuata backcrossed onto Ilex opaca. Whether such a thing exists as a known cultivar or whether it's simply a chance seedling, I don't know.

EDIT: the I. X attenuatas I know of have a narrower, glossier leaf (e.g. 'Longwood Gold') but there is a cultivar called 'Savannah' that looks like this.

Interesting, thanks. Yes, one of my ideas was a foster holly but the berries seem larger than usual. Maybe the attenuatas have larger berries? I just don't know, I know very little about hollies.

Very common plants in my area. They can be used as sheared specimens for formal landscapes, or allowed to develop into majestic trees like the one you have photographed. I tried selling them, but nobody really showed interest in them :(

Are you referring to attenuata?

Because I'm not sure we have definitively identified it as such yet

No, just the general species of ilex opaca.

There's a nice ~20 foot tall I. opaca I found growing just down the
road from me. I think it's a male but may be a female with no
pollinator nearby. I haven't stopped to see it during spring bloom
time. I'm just outside Buffalo, NY in USDA z6a. It's being choked by
some climbing vines - I'm going to talk to the property owner and see if
they'll let me cut and pull the vines out this spring/summer. I'll see
if I can get some pictures.
I took cuttings the other day,
wounded the base, did a quick dip in liquid rooting hormone, and a light
coating of rooting powder. I know it's overkill, but I'm hoping they
root. I have them in my unheated garage (just above freezing) but with
bottom heat and a humidity dome. If they're not successful, I'll try
cuttings from semi-hardened new growth this summer.

I'm not good at rooting, but I've rooted every holly I tried to root ;-). Bottom heat + rooting hormone...seems to guarantee success. Same as you almost, unheated south facing garage that stays above 32F, bottom heat maintained with a thermosensor set to 68F IIRC. (sensor stuck in an empty pot) The bottom heat was actually in a big plastic storage tote, so inside there temps probably stayed in the 40s or 50s.

Sounds promising! Thanks for the info on your experience rooting holly!

alexavd , wow, I don't know how I missed your post (now years old!) about the holly at George Mason. I will most definitely have to swing by and take a look (and cuttings?) at this one.

To me it sure looks like 'Savannah', as davidrt28 mentions. It's one of the more common, larger-leafed x attenuata hybrids, and fairly hardy. 'East Palatka' is similar (fewer spines, more glossy, deeper green), but I don't think as hardy, so would probably not be this robust. I've seen a few 'Savannah's around the area, but they are still quite rare. Much more common further south.

There used to be some quite large ones at the Tyson II mall on the south side, but they've been removed. They have a distinctive light grey bark and lots of (smallish) berries. Leaves have some spines, but nothing like pure opaca (although a few less spiny cultivars of opaca exist). Spines on Savannah are usually on the apical 1/3 to 1/2 of the leaf. Leaves are often slightly keeled or folded at the midrib.

Here were the Savannahs at Tysons II mall... I mean you drove by and just went 'Wow!', especially in January.

Visit the Genus Ilex Facebook page

Hi Dave, definitely let us know if you go by and see the GMU trees. I drive down University Drive often and it's so striking that I'm rubbernecking every time. Those Tysons Corner ones are so stately and beautiful. Wow if you do cuttings on the Mason tree let me know how they work out, I'm still too chicken to even try. But I've thought about it a lot.

Thanks for responding. So where exactly are these trees? Which corner? Near a parking lot? Easy access?

Yep easy access. They are on University Drive, but right after you turn off 123. They're visible from 123.

When I say University Drive, I'm talking about the Field House portion of University, not the Main Campus portion.

The trees are not quite on the corner of University & 123, but almost. If after you're on University you see the building on the right with the biggest weeping cherry you may have ever seen in front of it (now blooming), you've gone too far. In fact you can just parallel park right on 123 in front of that weeping cherry and walk up to the trees.

The trees are on the opposite side of University from the Field House, not the same side.

I live back in that neighborhood down University past the Field House. I just now drove by the trees on my way home, and there are no berries on either of them right now. Those pix of them I posted in 2017 were taken on 1/12/17. So I'm guessing at this late winter time of year, the birds ran out of their more favored berries and turned to the holly berries.

The more fruity tree is to the right of the less fruity one, and has the more yellowish-green foliage this time of the year than the less fruity one does.

Let me know if you need any more info and what you think when you see them. It may very well be a Savannah, I just don't know hollies well enough to be able to tell. Will be interested in anything you have to add!

Hey guys, timely bump. I am thinking about ordering some rooted cuttings of Ilex opaca 'jersey princess', or getting seed grown tubelings. I was thinking about growing them in grow bags with 511 mix, full sun, and regular fertilization for a few years before I plant them permanently in a shadier part of my yard. I dont mind if they get lanky looking later on like the typical woodland hollies, but Id like them to grow a little faster than the typical woodland holly. Does that sound sensible or should I plant them right away?

Hollies really respond to fertilizer -- at least most do. Not sure about opaca...or whether you can push another flush on opaca like you can aquifolium. Really small hollies should do OK in the ground in zone 7a, but I can see why you'd want to grow them bigger. Also, you may want to protect from rabbits and deer. I'd put them in part shade/part sun.

Hollies are tough. Some I helped plant in grated sidewalk planting holes near downtown Hagerstown, Md, when I worked a summer job at a nursery in the late 1970s are STILL ALIVE.

I've spent the past several weeks in Texas, including the piney woods in eastern part of the state. This tree is abundant and easily spotted since most of the deciduous trees had not leafed out. It would be welcome in my woods, but unfortunately it's not hardy this far north.

It seemed to me the habit was strongly horizontal when growing in a more shaded site, similar to what you'd see with Ostrya or Carpinus.

Great thread. I’ll try and take some photos of the mature I. Opacas on the farm here. They’ve been pruned up by cattle, but there are many old specimens here in the bottom sections of my adjacent pasture. Dozens more volunteers on the edge of the yard.

Ive planted ‘Satyr Hill’, and have ‘Carnival’, ‘Canary’, and ‘winter sun’ arriving tomorrow!

i live about 2 hours from Knoxville and will try and hunt down the ‘Volunteer Orange’

happy spring-

I'm shocked to hear people on here saying that deer,rabbits and cattle are munching on their Holly's foliage. I have a tree form Holly ( Ilex Opaca) that has never been browsed by deer, and I planted it when it was about 8 inches tall, BUT, my Rhododendrons have been chewed on I had to put shelters on them in winter. BTW, the once 8 inch seedling is now about 4 feet tall maybe 4 1/2 ft tall.

How long has the 8" seedling been in the ground Poaky1?

I wasn't aware of any wild stands of american holly near me and while this probably isn't a naturally occurring stand (ie was there before humans started plantings), but while walking a couple of years ago in the "hinterlands" around an area lake, I found mature specimens in relative abundance. I'm almost absolutely certain they're the result of bird berry droppings, but they're still welcome. I wouldn't be surprised if you can say they were not planted by man...does that make them naturally occuring (lol)? We are in the range of the plant being native within the state, even if it's farther south than where I live.

Skip, I am trying to remember. I will guess about 6-7 years, that seems right. I wish I had kept track of the growth, I hadn't expected it to live. I'll need to take a pic, but, I always have trouble posting pics. I'll need to really go and look at it better BUT, it's been about 6-7 years since planting. It's really close to my oaks, BUT, it'll be fine, I am NOT in any shape to go and try to dig it up to move it, so many roots entwined it would likely die anyway if I tried to dig it up.

I got a bakers dozen of them on Ebay and only the one ended up thriving.

Poaky, deer chewed my hybrid hollies pretty bad this last snow (couple weeks ago). They hadn't done that before -- my guess is the late snow covering the ground and the time of year when other food was used up.

Wow, I hadn't thought deer would eat ANY Hollies, But, I guess you never know. I've made a note to take a pic of some trees and shrubs to post on Gardenweb. I hope I remember to post my Holly on here soon. Beng, you had grown some Bamboo and posted on the Bamboo forum a while ago? I had posted on there a while ago, If NOT sorry, later.

Nope, didn't & have never posted on the bamboo forum -- don't have any, tho neighbor down the road has a clump of them spreading thru the woods.

Beng, curious as to which hybrid hollies you have out there. Other than Ilex X attenuata, most hybrids on the market have some Asian ancestry and yes, these seem more likely to be browsed. (In my case, luckily, only by rabbits as small plants!)

Not to put down I. opaca, it's great to use where appropriate, but there are so many better looking hybrids. Darker green foliage, denser foliage, glossier foliage. Even Ilex X attenuata is more attractive, though less hardy. It's a native hybrid that both occurs naturally and his been created purposely. I have a plant from Woodlander's called 'Sand Pond', they found in South Carolina, that is spectacular compared to any I. opaca. I just planted an attenuata called 'Nasa', that has thin and glossy leaves. Could pass for some rare antipodal shrub!

Okay, mine is a clumping Bamboo, it doesn't spread out much from the original planting. Th e kind that spreads out and kinda grows rampant are called "runners' mine just "clumps" it stays in bounds. I still haven't taken any pics of my Holly. I will soon.

I ended up getting the Jersey Princess cuttings (and 1 Jersey Knight pollinator). Here they are potted up in 511 ready for the year.

I would definitely like to grow them bigger before planting them out. I dont mind if they dont look as ornamental as hybrids, these are going to be planted at the back of the lot.

I did see some wild American hollies, including seedlings in the nearby woods. Resilient trees surviving in all that underbrush

Davidrt28, they're the common Blue Boy/Blue Girl
Ilex x meserveae (from musserforests). They're very dense & grown pretty well here, tho not fast.

Above are 2 of my Holly trees. I was thinking I had only 1, BUT, I have a full sized Holly, and, the other one has been eaten by deer. I previously hadn't paid much attention to them, so, I was pretty sure that deer hadn't bothered mine. I see I was wrong. I have another pic of the uneaten one. I will try to post the pic below. I've been having trouble posting pics. I can't get them to post if I have any words with the post, so, I will post this paragraph, THEN try and post the other picture of just the uneaten Holly.

alexavd , I finally got by and looked at that holly you posted about at George Mason. Looks like 'Savannah' to me! But there was a smaller-leafed one next to it and I have NO IDEA what that one is. Possibly a pernyi hybrid.

Dave, I'm glad you got to see the holly and to hear you think it's a Savannah. You should go look at it now - it's positively covered with berries! So gorgeous.

Like this?? LOL! Yes, it's loaded. Unfortunately with that fruit load, the foliage looked really chlorotic.

Oh, that smaller-leafed holly next to it is just a smaller-leafed opaca. Unusually small-leafed though.

Interesting. So I have been watching the fruity one for 3 years now, and it seems to have that yellowish tinge every year. I just thought it was its natural color. It does seem to have a lighter colored leaf even in summer. Below are some pix I've taken at different times of year. (Yes, I'm obsessed with the stupid tree :-).

We did have a dry late summer, maybe that contributed. But on the other hand - look at the foliage color difference between the two hollies even in summer:

2016-11-12:

2017-01-12:

2017-08-16:

2019-05-22

Some hollies just go yellow with a big berry set. Someone from the south mentioned that all the Savannahs do this down there.

I didn't know that. Hey do you know if there's a dwarf one out there?

Not a dwarf 'Savannah', but there are certainly some smaller-leafed and maybe a bit more compact x attenuata hollies.

When you say 'dwarf', what size are you talking about? For an overall smaller holly, look into some of the meserve hollies -- Blue Maid, Castle Spire, Honey Maid, etc.

Another gorgeous slower-growing holly is Liberty™.

Neighbor's (marginally mine) large holly has small smooth-edged leaves.

Hey Dav, have you swung by the tree on University Drive lately? It's spectacular!

Hi alexavd, no, it's not really been on my regular routes. I have lots of hollies in my yard to observe though -- probably 30 varieties! Even more including those in small pots that I'm trying to find a spot for.