Did you tell her that that would be called messenger?

There was an earlier posting with a link to an article by Jim Delahanty on using aspirin to trigger immune responses of roses. So far as I know, no controlled study has ever confirmed this but the idea is interesting.

Messenger is a protein, quite different stuff from aspirin, but is supposed to also trigger plant defense responses.

Here is a link that might be useful: Posting

Thats to funny Rosepep. If only it was that easy to just bust up a few aspirin huh!! Did you keep yourself from laughing? My kids are 19 and 23 and they come up with things like that. And are oh so serious. I try not to laugh to keep from hurting their feelings. The only place I can find it is at Lowes. Happy hunting, Judy

I let out a chuckle but recovered quickly. I ended up ordering it from my local feed store. How ironic that she was onto something. It would have really thrown her for a loop had I told her about the Messenger. :)

On 60 minutes last night they had a segment on Bayer(Messenger). It is killing off honey bees and is banned in Europe.

Think twice about your chemicals. What is the foe a bug or a bee?

Daun, Does it only kill them if the spray is sprayed directly on them or will it kill them when they land on the rose? I try to watch out for the honey bees and I am getting more and more to show up around here. Any info is appreciated. Thanks, Judy (I'm kinda a newbie to roses and disease chemicals)

It was my understanding that Messenger and Bayer were two different products. Have I been misinformed?

Daun, the Bayer product which is supected as the culprit in the widespread die off of honey bees is Bayer's insecticide, imidacloprid. At the moment, this is just a suspicion and bears no relationship at all to the Bioeden product,Messenger, and there is no suspicion at all that Messenger is responsible for bee deaths

Here is a link that might be useful: Bee Die Offs

Daun, Bayer does not make Messenger. Rosepep was talking about the Bayer fungicide (disease control), not the Bayer pesticide (which I think you are referring to).

I don't know what's going on in Europe, but scientists here have determined that other stressors, not pesticides, (specifically Bayer)are primarily causing CCD.

Mike - just for clarification...there are two Bayer products. There is the Bayer 3-in-1 which contains both fertilizer and insecticide and then there is the Bayer Advancedm which is a disease preventative but doesn't have insecticide nor fertilizer. Which Bayer product is linked to suspicion of bee deaths?
-terry

Imidacloprid (Merit) is an insecticide.

Bayer Advanced Disease Control is a fungicide only (tebuconazole) and does not contain imidacloprid.

Bayer Advanced All-In-One Rose & Flower Care Concentrate contains imidacloprid, tebuconazole and a fertilizer.

Bayer Advanced 3-in-1 Insect, Disease & Mite Control Concentrate (which is NOT the same product as All-In-One Rose & Flower Care) contains taufluvalinate, imidacloprid and tebuconazole.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bayer Advanced Rose and Flower Care Products

Perhaps she was connecting the name "Bayer" with the aspirin. Not many outside of gardening circles know Bayer is involved with many other products and is heavily into the manufacturing of pesticides.
I saw that 60 Minutes piece also. The inference was the Bayer product mentioned, not Messinger or either the Bayer
3-in-1 or Advanced Disease Control. Mentioned was an agricultural insecticide manufactured by them, and sprayed on large scale food crops, which has been shown to cause memory loss, failure to feed, immune deficencies, and a long list of other symptoms in bees resulting in their being affected more by diseases that have always been around but is now causing them to lose their way home and not eating. The fact the beekeepers are not finding dead bees in or around the hives suggest they are disappearing while collecting honey and away from the hive.
It was further suggested the over use of insecticides by homeowners and golf courses was a contributing factor. A picture of a bag of lawn grub control was shown when this was said.
With bees responsible for 50% of the pollination of our food supplies it's time we take some responsibility and not run for the insecticides as soon as we see a bug and a hole in a leaf or or flower bud.
While insecticides kill when sprayed directly on the bees, there is also a residule effect that occurs by exposure to treated plants. The systemic products can have trace amounts in flower nectar and pollen, while others can be absorbed by contact with treated plant surfaces.
A video of a bee removing pollen from it's body with rapid movements of it legs showed it can spread contact insecticides into it's body.
It was also stated that once an bee hive has been infected and is empty, other bees will not eat any honey that may be in that hive, suggesting the residue is in the honey which can cause death of bee grubs futher adding to the problem.
While possibly not the only causal agent, I sure don't want to take the chance and and add to the problem.
I'm considering asking a bee keeper if they'd like to place a hive in my insecticide free yard.
While I'm not immune to bee stings, the bees don't bother you if you don't appear to be a threat. Don't swat at them or wear perfumes. I just ignore them and they leave me alone.

As far as honeybees go, though, I had an interesting conversation last week with my sister.

Her son, my nephew, is a beekeeper by profession, so the family sometimes gets dragged along to "bee events."

I mentioned to her that we had bees here in big numbers all last year. They're particularly drawn to our single roses, and sometimes you see multiple bees tumbling around in one bloom. Quite aside from their economic importance, they're fun to watch.

She said there was a beekeeper somewhere very near us on the hillside. She hesitated, and then went on to say that bees in suburban settings are the focus of some worry now. They're fine and safe in MY garden, where there have been no sprays for years. But she said that there is grave concern for bees flying into gardens which ARE sprayed.

They take whatever they pick up home to the hive, of course. And where roses are treated with systemic pesticides, I'd think the things they carry back to the hive must logically include those chemicals.

Jeri

Actually birth control pills work much better than aspirin.

Bayer AG also manufactures a drug uses to reduce bleeding during surgery called Trasylol.

The problem is, this very expensive drug was know by its manufacturer to carry a great risk of kidney failure and death in patients given Trasylol.

Despite ongoing reports of renal failures, and studies showing a much higher death rate than less expensive alternative drugs, Bayer AG hid the results of their own studies (which corroborated the high kidney/death risks) from the FDA, which was looking into reports the drug was unsafe.

In a recently aired 60 minutes, it was estimated 22,000 American deaths are directly attributable to the use of this drug after Bayer AG's knowledge that it was unsafe. 22,000 deaths!

Bayer's actions have been shocking and criminal. They now face massive lawsuits. But no amount of money brings back the life of a loved one.

Bill

Imidacloprid, the ingredient in some Bayer insecticides, is not banned in Europe, at least not in the Netherlands. However, the use of imidacloprid is restricted: it is not allowed to be used on flowering plants.

This has nothing to do with the fungicide tebuconazole, which is in the Bayer Advanced Disease Control, though.

Rob

Imidacloprid is also the chemical used in "ADVANTAGE," Bayer's flea preparation.
But it is worthy of note that Imidacloprid, a known trigger for seizures, is contraindicated for seizure-prone individuals.
Having owned a seizuring dog, I avoid any known "triggers" like the plague.

Jeri

I'm willing to give Aspirin a try! I've done more ridiculous things in my lifetime!

Here is another interesting article on aspirin for plants.

Here is a link that might be useful: Plants feeling under the weather

WHAT?????